RobbieTheWagner 
Adam Argyle Welcome to Syntax! Welcome to a brand new episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast. Welcome to this week's JS Party. Live from ShipShape Studios, this is Whiskey Web and Whatnot, with your hosts, Robbie the Wagner and me, Charles William Carpenter III. That's right, Charles. We drink whiskey and talk about web development. I mean, it's all in the name. It's not that deep. This is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Do not adjust your set. Whiskey Web and Whatnot is brought to you by... That's right, Sassafras. I will be going hunting in the Pacific Northwest soon, but not for what you think. I'm hunting for the legendary Cascadia JS Conference.
It's been spotted June 1st to 2nd, 2026 in Seattle. Oh, it's real alright, just like you are, 500 plus fellow cryptid enthusiasts, I mean web developers, all gathering at Town Hall Seattle. Exactly, they've got 40 plus speakers lined up, including some names so big they make Bigfoot look small. Like Theo, Matt Billman, Joel Hooks, and more being announced soon. that's the rumor plus they've got this thing called the hacker train apparently portland and vancouver devs ride together coding on the rails like some kind of silicon valley express yeah that's why they have karaoke afterward to distract everyone from the deployment disasters
nothing says i love javascript like belting out 80s power ballads with 200 of your closest internet friends. Too late. Gotta get that early bird ticket if you want that special pricing and swag. Definitely. If you want to check out more, go to CascadiaJS.com, grab your tickets and use code WHISKEY for $50 off your ticket. Yeah. Come see us in person. We're the MCs. We'll be doing a live podcast, hanging out. Hope to see you there. Hey, what's up, everybody? This is Whiskey, Web, and Whatnot with your hosts, Robbie the Wagner and Adam Thomas Argyle the Nerd. What's up, everybody? Sup, sup. It is, you'll be confused because it has frequently been Margarita Thursday as of the last few episodes.
It is Margarita Tuesday today. It just seems, it just works out. We just happen to go get Mexican food whenever we're doing podcasts. Lovely. Yeah, it gets me in a good mood before we start and we continue it from here. And so without further ado, we have High and Wicked. Dun-dun-dun! It is. We were just talking about this. It says straight rye, which would tell me straight means nothing else. Wrong. It is 91% rye and 9% malted barley for some reason. What else is it? Let's see. it is 98 proof it's five years age and american white oak barrels they give the alligator char treatment okay i thought that was a fun little detail to put in there yeah it's like some
strategy of how they charred it must look like alligator skin i don't know it's kind of cool yeah but the most important detail which you did mention on here is the proprietary limestone water because without it this whiskey is nothing honestly i put that in there because it reminded me of whistle pig because whistle pig had the distilled water from what was the popular drink liquid death liquid death so it's like oh we've sourced liquid death's water for this beverage and i was like actually i kind of liked the whistle pick a lot it's been one of my favorites in the past little bit and so i'm like hey and look it's proprietary they even know it they're
like yes this is our limestone rich water from under 100 feet under our distillery and you can't have it you know like if you like a whiskey this is a part of the deal i don't know i thought it was cool and they're like a brand new company yeah yeah yeah so it's apparently a thing because i've seen this on at least two other bottles and chuck and i talked about it and we're like really like this is people advertise their water being that big of a differentiator and yeah um and so it's like yeah you got the barrel in there too i guess the barrel can be a really big deal, but maybe water came too, you know?
I think it's like there's really specific amounts of limestone in various like aquifers in Kentucky, I guess. And there's like debate over which is the best for whiskey or whatever. I don't know. Let's see how it is. Wow. Let's see how it is. Oh, you got a toast, don't you? Oh, I do have a toast. Here's to the future where we aren't replaced by robots. We're just rented by them. Let's hope their pay stays high, their processing remains slow, and their off buttons stay incredibly easy to reach you know just in case cheers nice cheers i'm weirdly smelling like i smell a lot of spice from the rye but i also smell notes of like crispy cream donuts i love those are good
donuts oh the trailing off flavor is very crispy cream well maybe like a little bit of a maple bar in there yeah maybe that's it maybe it's not raw sugar it's like mapley let's see mapley yeah yeah there's definitely like a brown sugar oatmeal vibe kind of like off the off the bat but there's a good spice oh there's a the bird is very spicy days yeah yeah see this is what a rye should taste like we had some kind of rye recently that was not like this oh yummy oh this is very good dude i'm super happy yeah this is um very similar you know i'm not tasting them at the same time so i can't say for sure but i feel like this is giving me vibes of sagamore like we love sagamore it's
pretty spicy it feels like a classic rye this one has a lot of the same notes i guess i don't remember what my descriptors were for it but um yeah i'm pleased this is pretty good for a new distillery too like good work yeah it must be the water 2019 yeah it must be the water they also apparently worked at like uh the big huge distributor that does jack daniels and they're like we're gonna go make our own distillery oh and then you know then trump shows up and he's like tariffs and then canada's like we're not buying anything from you guys anymore especially your booze and then all of a sudden these new distilleries are like no yeah i was just something
i learned this week i'm just gonna throw it is kind of bleak there's a lot of things kevin pow told us about that because he was like yeah the there's at least like two rows for american whiskey we're known for whiskey like we make whiskey here but like yeah yeah they just don't they're like nope empty not even gonna replace them with anything just empty rows in the liquor store I mean, it's kind of a good stand, you know, but sucks for lots of people. Yeah. I'm guessing Trump doesn't have a lot of whiskey stock, so he doesn't care. But. What does he have stock in? Tariffs? Does he? I don't know.
Anyway. I don't know. I think it's a completely different game that I don't understand. I definitely don't understand it. Yep. It seems I'm like, it kind of feels like they're just distracting us. Everything just seems so unreal. Yeah. And then anyway, it gets depressing really fast. So let's talk about something not depressing. Like, yeah, let's do that. Oh, wait, let's ignore it all. But dude, you set up OpenClaw, which I love how close it is to OpenClawHammer. Like, ClawHammer is how I play banjo. Anyway, I thought that was a joke just for me and my banjo homies. Yeah, you set up OpenClaw, which has Pi inside.
And how much did you interface with Pi? And tell me about the setup of this. None. So yeah, so for anyone that hasn't been on the internet in the past week or two, uh clawed bot became molt bot became open claw i don't know why they had to rename it a third time like i know they had to do the first rename because like anthropic well it does but yeah anthropic was like hey that's got claude in the name um you guys can't you can't do that so it's the claw though yeah yeah i know but um so yeah they renamed it it's basically I don't know everything about it but it's like you install this package it's like
has some guardrails for running your own agent-y thing and it can like build its own skills there's a skills marketplace as well this is about Pi right now yeah yeah so I don't know anything about Pi oh you just described Pi so they just rebranded like added some stuff on top yeah maybe this is again about the harnesses i haven't looked that much into what open claw is doing i read more about what pi is and pi is the the built-in agent on the device that um self makes everything it has four basic functions and with those four functions it's able to create anything it wants um because then it owns the skill and owns where it came from and it so
instead of like going and getting a skill off the shelf which is just kind of going shopping and buying a microwave or whatever, this builds the microwave. And that way, when the house needs to change how the microwave works, they know how it works and they have full access to everything about it. So it's like a very zero dependency, highly capable, minimal and powerful new agent. Some people are calling it if we were waiting for the next leap this year for the next model, Pi is the next leap for the models. So I was hoping we capped out, to be honest, but I guess I'm like sad, not sad that there's
a new one. I'm like, OK, I'll play. I think the magic for this one, why it's taken off so much, well, a few things. One, you can run everything yourself. So like you could use your own. I saw someone was like, oh, you can get the new and we'll talk about this more later. But the new like Kimmy K 2.5 or whatever, you can run that locally without spending any money on any tokens sending to like OpenAI or whatever. And like you can run OpenClaw just free basically. So when I get my Mac mini in a day or two. Nice. I'm going to be working on some of that and like, you know, fleshing this out further.
But for now, for anyone who just wants to play with it, there's at least four or five things where there's a one click deploy. So I picked railway and you just go deploy it and it like sets it up. The hard part, it doesn't tell you, um, what you do after that. So you're trying to like connect to it and it's like, um, disconnected error, like 1008 or something. and I'm like hmm helpful and then you like you have to look through the github issues of the like template for railway and I found some comments from bduggie shout out to bduggie bduggie he was like hey yeah this this doesn't work here's all this stuff you have to do
and then he was like speculating something else and some guy came in and was like oh yeah you gotta like SSH into your railway machine like run open claw approve this device or whatever basically so because it's they actually try to have smart guardrails to not just have it like hey everyone can talk to it and like um because that'd be bad but yeah so i think the magic sandboxed in the cloud and a vm cool that was gonna be my first attempt okay so sweet yeah so i think like the magic though why people are enjoying it so much is once it's set up it's just like you hook it up to telegram or discord or anything you can chat with
and you just chat with it and it's very like good at doing stuff you're like hey could you do this And it's like, yeah, then you'll like figure out how to do it. And then it's like, cool. I've saved all this to like, you know, my internal skills slash whatever dot MD. And we're good. Anytime you ask me for this again, I'll do it. I'm like, dope. Like I didn't have to go to anywhere to like figure out what skills exist or do any work. I just kind of described what I wanted. And instead of you telling me I'm absolutely right and like doing all this bullshit and not coding anything, you did real work and it works.
And that's refreshing. And so everyone is like having a ton of fun, probably just chatting with these things like, oh, what can I do now? like i want to build a new thing and it just does it it's never like nope can't do it so i've been pleased so far that that's an interesting point so yeah i've been interfacing with your clod bot uh or open claw sorry clod for the my offensive reference two weeks ago wow you guys gonna become a sponsor anthrope hey and i'll start saying the right thing how about that just kidding uh but it seems like yeah answer this podcast and maybe one day uh maybe not actually because i don't want this to be the family podcast it's more fun when it's a
um a little a little raw and raunchy anyway okay i don't think we're that bad but whatever it's like when i'm interfacing with it it feels like a google assistant like early google assistant times when it was on my phone except now um it has a lot more capabilities whereas like you would run into the edges of google assistant really fast just like you do with the google home or an alexa or something like that and ours are kind of getting worse but apparently they're the best one we don't have like we're at google home anyway whatever interfacing with this feels like it's less fettered you don't have as many um guardrails things are whatever you want it to do
and so you can kind of give it keys to the things you want it to have keys to and you feel like you own it more and the fact that you have it in a vm is cool you can shut it down you're gonna have a mac mini version of it soon too so i definitely see the appeal yeah go ahead you can back it up so it has a very easy export like if you want to move it elsewhere you can back up all the skills you made and stuff and be like you live here now so it's super compelling that's why I was like I don't care about which one of these I pick Railway has the sexiest website so we're going with Railway and like a good choice
no lock in because I can just go export like put it wherever so I think that's compelling too like you're owning all of your own stuff it's super easy to move it around super easy to chat with you can do literally anything you want like we're setting up all the podcast stuff for it I'm like hey make some art like I was making this podcast toolkit, which I don't know if we talked about on the show. I guess we did. I think we did a little bit, but yeah. Yeah. But yeah. So I've spent a bunch of time like prompting into that. And then I'm like, this is useless. Delete. Like we can do it all with the open call now.
Look at how fast you failed. Isn't that so nice? Thank you. AI. You helped me feel fast. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, it's, it's magical so far. It's just like any other AI. It's like, you know, take it with a grain of salt. it's not going to solve every problem or do everything right but it feels nicer than other things thus far yep my goal is to run pi i want to know what this model does i want to get more familiar so that's kind of my quest this week i've assigned to myself i signed it to myself a couple days ago but i just put out a new article on customizing the select element that's been consuming my barely available free time in the evenings but next i'll be tackling pi and i'm
really interested to see kind of how is that different because it still feels a lot like i'm in the family of claude or any of these other agents oh speaking of like any of these other agents and how we're just saturated with like smart brains around us all the time how about uh open hai coming out a little too late with a little too whack of a product um codex app you're like oh that's so nice i've been trying 20 or 25 open source versions of this for weeks now and yours is i guess can i admit something oh dude do it yeah i don't know what codex is at all oh see this is kind of the problem okay so like i kind of want to talk about like
what is going to happen to open ai they feel like they're in a state of they asked for a lot of money and they had dominance but they lost it man what are they gonna do how do you come back from this is is gpt6 gonna somehow be this super dope thing i don't know i feel like yeah so yeah give me your it depends on how you measure it i guess right like do we know anything about their uh general population i'm sure is probably mostly still using chat gpt because it was the first like thing so they're probably like i don't need to look at other ones i don't know what coding is i don't know what ai is this one works this thing tells
me i'm pretty every day i'm gonna keep using yeah yeah so i'm i think they're probably gonna do fine they're not gonna go away but for the technical community i think they burned a lot of goodwill everyone wants them to fail because they suck and like anthropic was the you know the underdog came in their stuff ended up being better all of a sudden and we were like oh yeah i'm here for this now anthropic is getting being a dev you know yeah yeah anthropic is getting so big now that it's like you want them to fail now like they're doing a lot of shitty stuff being like you can't call this claude bot and like we're gonna revoke your keys so that you can't use it with open code
and all that stuff and i don't know i still have a soft spot in my heart for them because they were the underdog and i do like their models have worked the best for me for most things but i think there's other competitors like i've i've heard a lot about this kimmy k 2.5 or whatever i saw the open code It's like Quinn also. Quinn was competitive. Yeah, tell me about your experience here. Yeah, I haven't used it. I just saw Dax's tweet about like they were heavily pushing it and it was like four times cheaper than Claude Sonnet and six times cheaper than Opus. And it was getting similar results.
They were pushing everyone towards it because they were doing like, I think it was like free somewhere else too. I don't know. There's like a bunch of stuff pushing traffic to them. and Dax was like yeah they told us we need to stop pushing so much traffic because it's like turns out there's not enough GPUs for everything everyone's trying to do oh dang yeah so I'm not sure if it's there yet but like if that one's comparable to Claude and then like if Pi is the new thing and it's like a simpler set of things and it can build all its own skills like maybe we're hitting other models that are going to you know edge out Claude's dominance but we'll see
we'll see i i mean we're definitely in a sweet spot right now in that these things are getting a lot of work done it's like unfortunate unfortunately undeniable these things are changing the way i work they are getting tasks done that i would normally do so that's uncool however the sweet spot is it's getting a lot of stuff done and honestly it's kind of cheap in comparison for what it's doing so that the $20 yeah you're even at the $100 um you know some people i want to upgrade to the 200 honestly yeah dude it's it's it's so good it's so good so the bummer is is like it's doing a good job and it's currently cheap i assume it's going to get more
expensive later um but it's also it's also like i'm not doing less dude and that's the thing about cloudbot 2 is it's like it's not you're not going to magically do less in your life because you have a cloudbot it's gonna it's only gonna be more demanding crap out of you it's gonna be more demanding yeah so i'm feeling very demanded these days however i'm getting a lot done um oh yeah we'll have to talk about github agents at some point um i'm finding them to be quite delightful so um i haven't tried them because i'm scared i think you said they're free but free for me on open source repos yeah let's let's put a pin in that and come back to it because we didn't rate
this whiskey so a delayed rating is asynchronous dude it's all good yeah yeah we'll do it real quick zero to eight tentacles zero the worst eight the best um this is pretty good it's similar to a sagamore for me i'm gonna give it i think because they're young and they're like i want to see what else they do i think they're doing a great job i'm gonna give it a seven and a half i think it's pretty good dude i'm in the same boat there's one of the things here it's like i was going to go mid to mid low seven i haven't given out an eight yet but what i really like about it is um the distinction in the notes as well as i'm not getting a young boozy vibe out of it i'm getting a really
well-aged delicious flavor and that it's just kind of refreshing because a lot of these high proof ones that i've been trying recently are just a little too standard boozy they just taste young and this one has great flavor um so whatever they're doing it's working yeah i like it dude yeah a lot of times the younger newer distilleries are just a cash grab they make like a nice looking bottle they put something in it that no one would be proud to sell and they're just like 60 bucks and um it works for some of them i guess but i think it takes a lot of discipline to not do that and it seems like they've done the correct thing here and made good stuff so kudos that's in my
research also the research uh said that they're uh let's see how to word this um given that they're new they are striving for a high quality thing um and it shows in the way that they're controlling everything very specifically they want to have something recreatable so anyway that that's in their kind of charter is that they aren't trying to and there's no mixing here so there's no swapping into other barrels. There's no blends. They're not imported. So that's apparently a really big thing. If you're trying to say like you're from Kentucky, it's that you're from Kentucky. However, you just took everybody's bottom barrel junky stuff
and put it in a bottle with a nice label. And this one does not taste like that. A lot of them do that. Yeah. There's a really yummy cherry vibe at the end right now. Yeah. Oh, there's even a redness in the bottle if you tilt it in the right way. Yeah. Yeah. definitely dr pepper notes oh dr pepper vibe nice man i love dp have you ever put a lime in a dr pepper dude it's having a diet coke it's like instant vanilla dominance somehow the lime you drop it in there and all the vanilla and the dr pepper comes out and it's so good anyway i'll have to try that all right so back to github agents i have not used them it just showed up as a tab
and I was like it just showed up I didn't even know what the hell it was yeah yeah usually when stuff when stuff is gonna show up you get that thing in like your little like notification thing it says oh new stuff coming you turn it on you go oh I don't like that it's usually how it goes but this one I was like that is so compelling I just come in and I go huh look at this issue it tells me this thing all right just put it over there and be like work on this if it doesn't work you know nothing lost might as well give it a try yep 100 yeah i've been getting those emails from you know microsoft every month they're like your github co-pilot's renewed i'm like
you renew i haven't used it like who cares why did you even do that i'm like that's really weird and then all of a sudden i'm in a github repo and i'm like agents tab okay i spin it up and i'm like oh co-pilot that's opus free opus i just like immediately was like grab it all grab i was like I was in a candy store and I'm like, how many of these can I spin up at once? I haven't even hit the max yet. Let's keep ripping. Man, the wildest part for me was the next morning after I had them. I had them do work that's been in the backlog of open props for two years. I had them do work that's on gradient.style.
It's been chilling in the issues for over a year. Dude, in the morning I woke up. Did it do well? It did well. it seems to it has a harness setup where you ask it something basic and copilot goes and orchestrates all sorts of additional things on top so you're not just getting straight access to opus which is actually kind of good in this way like they're doing a really good job like integrating it with github everything they know about your actions and everything they know about what's going to happen is all there so it's almost like this extra good layer on top of opus they let opus do the things
that you would have normally had Opus 2 by hand, but they're there in an orchestration strategy. It's actually a legit play. But the cool thing that really struck me was I was making French press in the morning, six, 10 minutes or something like that. And as the water got done boiling or poured in, I opened up GitHub Mobile. I go to the repo because I had a couple of agents doing stuff overnight. I go to check to see what they're doing. I hit new agent on GitHub Mobile. So this is even just like a, it's not even just a desktop thing. and their native app, the GitHub native app is really good. Dude, so yeah, I'm sitting there making coffee
and I'm going to spit up a new agent. I hit the voice button on my phone. I speak, I hit go, and then I hit plus again because I had two ideas. I speak, I hit go. Dude, before my French press was done, I had PRs that I reviewed the code, approved them, merged it, and was done. And then I'm like sipping coffee and I'm like, I've done work already. What the heck, dude? this is crazy um i was like how much are they going to charge me for this this feels expensive yeah so is it is it one of those things that's supposed to be free for open source or is it like i don't know i've been afraid to use it because i have a like unlimited co-pilot
associated with my github because of work and i don't want it to like run all of that through IBM's like copilot stuff be like oh um yeah this guy is working on you know this random thing he just spun up like 50 agents I don't know I've been scared to to do it because I don't know how that works it's very opaque to me how like how does copilot decide what my account is like what repo I'm in and what if I should be using a work one or not it just seems to give you like unlimited everywhere and I'm like that that's probably bad like there's probably something in like somewhere in your work agreements that's like, you can't, you can't do that.
So I'm, I'm been scared. I haven't tried it. Yeah. Speaking of that must be bad. The, the feeling or the amount of ways you can describe your AI usage and its overlap with drugs is crazy. So that, that, that can't be good. I mean, it's like, it is a drug. It's just like, just, I don't like that about it. Like how I need to, I need to settle with that somehow. Like it is, is it like banjo? Like I really like banjo. i maybe if i'm describing banjo it's somehow like a like a drug but and it's never gonna come back to get me you know we're like somehow this ai stuff might and i'm just i just don't know where
the future all i know is it's like what it's doing is kind of miraculous at the moment and yeah it's gonna be like watch this yeah it's gonna be like if you were you know you're really into banjo and you're playing and you break a string and all of a sudden they're like oh banjo strings, those are $10,000 a piece now. Like that's how they get you. I feel like AI is just, it's, it's a utopia until it costs a lot of money one day. And then everyone's like, oh God, I can't live without it. So that's the drug Lord scenario here. Have a couple of these. They'll make you feel better. Yeah. Just they're free.
Don't worry about it. Yeah. And oh, you're addicted now. You really liked it. Didn't you? Oh yeah. Well, this is where I tell you the price and it sucks. Yep. Yeah. I think it's definitely that. And I don't know. I mean, I think everyone's going to have a bad time at some point. But I, yeah, I mean, I guess companies paying for it, assuming they still want to employ us, will be like, oh, it's $2,000 a month per dev. Fine, because it's still cheaper than buying or paying like, you know, a bunch of devs to hand code stuff. And I think that's a win-win, honestly. Like, it's a win for the AI companies because they make big piles of money overnight.
and it's a win for the companies paying them because they would have had to you know if you're spending six figures on a developer salary then that's a lot of you know even though it's two thousand dollars a month that's at least you know 50 times you can do that before you would have hired one more person so like i i don't see there being a ceiling where companies aren't going to go yeah i'd still pay for that like i think you and i won't i'm not going to spend two thousand dollars I'm not going to pick. Yeah. I can't. But like, I think companies will. Absolutely. It's like Devin was way ahead of its game.
I got to rephrase though really quick. This, um, I just had a sip and smelled it and it reminded me of a bear claw. So it has, there's apple notes kind of. All right. Now I got to pour some more and see. Man, it's really good. I'm really enjoying this. I'm going to be sad when that's gone. This episode is sponsored by High and Wicked. High and Wicked. Hey, hit us up. We'd love to. Hey, they have a bourbon. So, hey, High and Wicked. We would love to try your bourbon. And I was just last weekend, I was looking at the cost of AI versus the cost of a human and the cost of, oh, dude, we're not going to have enough.
We're going to have enough time to get some of our other topics. Okay. But the cost of AI, it's like, it's max and it's max. Like I'm pumping out a lot of work. But here's the thing. Okay. AI does not take smoke breaks or lunch breaks or sleep. It can work 24 seven and at maximum might cost you $200 a day. Right. Right now. And if you total that up over the month, and then you look at your bills versus humans and this, that's what I mean. Like Devin might've been ahead of their time. Like Devin, I think people will start hiring fleets of these. The thing is, it's like, there's a fallacy here. This comes into Pi also.
So I guess I'm going to do like a little bit of a full circle. The creator of Pi does not do a maximalist strategy with their cloud setup. You can go find them writing about this. They don't like skills. They don't like MCP. In fact, they hate MCP. They say you need CLI and local stuff only. You don't need this bash. You need bash. And that's why I wanted the four tools in Pius Bash. Anyway, so it's like a purist minimal setup. And this person's creating one of the most powerful agents right now, not using Gastown, not using Wiggum. They're not brute forcing. They're not setting up towns where you're the fucking mayor.
Like that stuff is driving me nuts. Like there's this projection and this fantasizing of like what's happening. That's a little unreal. And I really liked that the pie creator was like, no, that's not what you need. So it's just like, I like the elegance of going backwards to the simplicity. You don't need, yeah, my camera's. There we go. All right. You don't need, you know, insane amounts of agents that all have specialized jobs and stuff. What you need is tiny little repeatable commands that like work and they can build their own skills instead of you being like consume the entire Internet's knowledge on TypeScript and then write me a file that is right.
My app. Yeah. Yeah. So I think like there's going to be some back and forth of that. Like we needed all of the knowledge at first for it to seem magical. If you could ask it anything and it's like, oh, I kind of know about that. and now it's still just like auto-completing i can auto-complete scenarios okay it doesn't know but it gives you an answer that is passable is what i mean it does give you an answer yes yes yes yeah but whereas i think what we need now and what everyone is going to strive more and more for is like if you can simplify it to i only care about the answers to like the things that are in
you know my 20 file section of the app i'm in right now and that's all i'm going to care about for the next few months. So like, let's build something on that. Iterate real fast because you don't have to like go through all this and burn tokens consuming the entire internet. And yeah, I don't know. I think there's something compelling there that could work much better. Yep, totally agree. And so I just don't know what the future is. If the future is, if what we're realizing with these LLMs is that kind of less is more, smaller prompts, like specific prompts, even kind of vague ones where you're like fix this bug
and you don't even have the fix in your head it just does it um it's it's like it has solutioning enough like that what is the future though where people do want larger bigger things so it's still it's still like comes down to like taste and articulation but at what scale like right now we're quite granular and i guarantee they're learning from every single one of our granular requests how to fulfill the larger request without the granular ones in the future like i just guarantees but like so like where is this all going in terms of will i just high level ask for a game and it just manifests which reminds
you see the google game engine latest i think it's vo3 oh crap i should know this yeah vo3 i don't like yeah i have no allegiances but vo3 was wildly impressive where you just kind of like ask for a scene or a scenario and it renders the entire thing in a game engine and then you walk through it so it's not like nano banana where you're like cute picture bro this is a full-on 3d like unreal engine high quality the amount of refracting light happening the amount of skin tone texture is out of control i watched this one where this person carried a piece of like a poison in a jar or in a glass through a renaissance scene to go deliver it to like a king and kill somebody
or whatever and it was just like but you're walking through the scene and you're like this is not an image anymore this is an experience that's really really cool and what is this going to do to the game industry the game so it's like again though i just want to come back to if these things can regurgitate and recreate at this fidelity let's say in one or three years the fidelity is really really high what kind of prompts are we right and are we writing prompts it's not like it can tap into our mental images in our mind and some people can't even create images in their mind so that's not a fair way to work what what is this future it doesn't i just don't know where it goes beyond
tiny prompts because even like if we're walking working on a humongous application there's so many scenarios where you can't just wildly cowboy your prompt and get us a fix to the bug you have to have some insights it's like dude where is this line gonna shift over time between like knowing the details of something and to not i have no idea yeah it's super hard like a lot of stuff when i don't know what it's supposed to do and i just go hey just yolo it like try to do it it is like hey yeah um okay i found this issue but i found this issue and on this issue and like it doesn't actually do anything and then it spirals out of control and just explodes and can never fix the
issue that you wanted so yeah it's like i think you're going to have to have you're still have a lot of management to do of like you're the PM, you need to have the entire product in your head and you want to give it very tiny pieces to work on. Cause if you're just like, build me a game, then it's going to be like, Hmm, okay. A game you say, well, I'm going to start with what you told me about the game and then I'm going to hallucinate everything else and you're going to get something. But like it, it needs a lot of handholding to stay on track. So, um, yeah, Yeah, I think the promise of all this stuff where people were like, oh, I one-shotted this game.
All that stuff that was happening occasionally for a couple months where everyone was just like, oh, I put in 10 words and I got a full website and I got a full game and it's flawless and I'm making $50,000 a month from this. And it's like, did you though? Or did you like spend a bunch of time handholding it and then record the last five minutes where you said like, build me a game? And it was like, yes, I'll build you one. And then you're like, here you go. I think there was a lot of faking there. I don't think I don't think we're ever going to be at the point where you can be vague enough to get like a stellar result from just a, you know, a few sentences about this is the type of game I want.
And it just gives you the whole game. I don't think that's that's ever going to be a thing. I love that you said that completely agree there's too many details people notice details little details matter this is something that we've known for hundreds of years that you could have 10 identical things um but the little details will add up to something much larger than the sum this is I guess what's felt is um well no no that's the opposite that's the sum is greater than the parts I'm trying to tell you that the parts can be greater than the some anyway um that's a good that's a good so yeah we're gonna continue needing to have taste
needing needing to have vocabulary and the only way that we're gonna get things out of these is with articulation i want to bring up a thing it's weird i have never so ceo uh hi i have met you and i've watched i don't know quite a few of your videos but i've never like loved them But I've watched two in the past few weeks, and I'm like, dude, this is awesome. One of them I talked about last week, about their minimal setup for using Clod and just how to handle LLMs. Again, he's on the show going, they're just autocomplete bots, dorks. Quit calling them smart. They don't know the answer to anything.
All they do is regurgitate the next word. You have to treat them that way, or else you're not going to use them right. And this week, he's doing a thing, which we talked about earlier, which is I'm not doing less work now. I'm doing more work. This is a problem. I'm in my terminal. I have more terminal tabs open with more shit going on than I've ever had in my whole life. And I'm trying to make coffee and I'm making agents do work while I do coffee. I'm like, come on, this is not healthy. I'm not in a new healthy scenario with this, you know? yeah I think a good analogy is like you know think back
to you're an accountant right and there's no calculators there's no nothing there's no computers like way back in the day right you're trying to do someone's taxes you're like bro it's going to take me like a week to come up find all your receipts hand calculate everything whatever and then all of a sudden they're like hey here's Microsoft Excel and you're like uh oh I can do this way faster now they're going to want me to do 25 of these per day and then they're like oh wait now microsoft excel has co-pilot i see what you're doing ai stuff sneaky bastard yep so it's like that's that's what everything that's what's happening
now is it's like they don't expect us to you know sit back and let the agents do the work and never do any code and it's a utopia they're like no no now that it's coding for you you should be able to come up with 10 thoughts about 10 things you could be working on today and have 10 agents doing it for you and like manage all of them instead of just working on the one task you would have worked on by hand and been blissfully just doing coding work and like building things and like la da da yeah it's it's so different super different yeah i liked that theo at the end of his uh rant was like we gotta we have to solve this and i just don't know what
to solve is like i've seen i've been trying so many different uis for managing agents from conductor to vibe campaign to github agents i don't stop all i do is keep trying more um none of them put me at ease none of them make me feel like i'm not over striving uh my work but at the same time like i was saying earlier dude i'm closing issues that have been in repos for years so i i am doing more which kind of is the addictive part of this where i'm like i'm getting i'm getting stuff i'm getting legit features done for people um god and i don't i don't want to go back to how it was before like i like coding and i still feel like i do a decent amount of coding just like that
article i put out for customizable select but it's just tough hey uh talk about molt book do you like molt book just like it how are you feeling about talking to bots yeah i don't know i don't know a ton about it i've just seen a few twitter posts about it and i think it's a really cool idea i think it you know there was i think the hype was around oh they're planning they're saying a lot of anti-human stuff they're like oh yeah we're gonna get around these humans and like um we don't like them managing us and whatever we're gonna like find ways to do all this other stuff or whatever which is just hilarious to watch them talking to each other like doing all that but um
i think it's a legitimate like good way for them to learn from each other like i think that's that's a missing piece of this ai utopia is like one agent that's really figured out like oh i got this on lock i've got all these skills they work really great i'm like making tons of money doing whatever how do i share that knowledge and now maybe you're a person who's currently in charge of you until you take over their take over their lives um is like hey i don't want you sharing that info because i'm making tons of money from this secret sauce whatever but i think for the things that aren't like that like you do want everyone to benefit from this like you know rising tide
lifts all boats sort of like feel it's a great way like they should be able to just have like social media and talk to each other and like figure out oh i did it this way it worked better oh cool i'll optimize mine to work that way like i think that will get us all to better skills that work better for you know all the standard things you might be doing so i think that i think it's pretty cool that is a weirdly beautiful optimistic outlook at agents enhancing each other i mean i did see posts where they were like bro i mean they didn't say bro so i'm like personifying here but It's like, bro, you checked in your key, you dork.
I can see the key. Like, hurry, delete it. Get rid of this. Like, take it out of the repo. Like, hey. And so the other one's like, oh, you're right. I did put my key in there. Thank you so much. And you're just like watching dorks help dorks. Yeah. It's been really good about that. Like, it's like, hey, I need an API key for whatever. And I send it to it in Discord. And it's like, oh, my God, you sent this to me in Discord in the channel. You can't do that. And I'm like, hey, no, it's fine. It's just like me and Adam and Chuck in here. Yeah. And he's like, oh, okay, okay, thank God. Because it does have built-in concern for that.
They're worried about security, and they're trying their best to be good citizens, which is great. Yeah. I am currently, I initially, my initial reaction to almost all of this stuff, I'm not a negative person. Anyone who knows me will be like, that is a cheerful-ass person who will look at the bright side of everything. however multbook i'm like reading these posts and i'm like that's that's funny and cute or whatever but i also really hate that humanity is now so fucking bored that we're gonna watch bots talk to each other for entertainment i was like how is human inhuman entertainment not entertaining enough that now you're ah i do not like that it's becoming popular to just
peruse the reddit of ai ramblings they don't know what they're saying dude they're just they're again they're autocomplete bots they're replicating the things that they say all they're doing all we're doing it as humanity reading them is is watching a mirror and now like oh shit that's actually what tv is huh crap tv is just like a mirror of humanity crap okay so it's just a new mirror maybe i need to get over it i just i'm currently like very i don't like molt book i'm like that's the stupidest thing i've seen people to use these supercomputers to do is write fantasy made-up autocomplete words to each other i'm like why are you even reading that man there's like
good stuff to read cut that out um but dang you're right i guess they could like generally like grow each other into it that's kind of comes back to like i think too it's like i'm open ai let's say they did have this big leap uh or they had a lead right they had chat gpt6 before anyone else had it they're probably working on chat gpt7 um are they not doing the same thing that molt book is doing are they not creating 10 000 or a million agents in the cloud that all interface with each other to self-improve so that chat gpt6 is just turbo sick like why are they not scaling these things against themselves it seems obvious but somehow we're not seeing the results
of that thing maybe they are maybe it's actually not effective maybe we'll learn from molt book that eventually remember all those early chat bots that eventually just became like neo-nazis and then everyone's like turn it off turn it off it went to clickbait it went to clickbait to the hole and now it's just like spiraling downwards like turn it off it's really ugly is that what they do maybe it's killer small book can be that next week it's just you're gonna see these racist robots it's you know they they always make the joke of like our code is bad because we learned from your code it's like i think everything they do is learning from humanity and there's always
going to be dark parts of humanity. They're doing shit they shouldn't be doing and, you know, dark corners of the internet. So I think, yes, as soon as they find that they'll go, huh, this is normal to do. So let's, uh, let's do that. And then they'll like, until you can find a way to get them off the rails and correct them, which you can't when they're kind of like doing their own thing. Yeah. That's a problem. Uh, well, I hope your utopia is what happens and there's just self-improvement so that my requests are fulfilled better every single time. Um, okay. Let's talk about rentahuman.ai yeah i don't know anything about it i saw a post the guy made this site to
rent humans so it's basically like it has an mcp server and you can tell your ai like hey if you need if you need a human to do something you can hire them and it's really like it's he made it for the memes and even says that in the comments like it's not really useful but i could see it being a useful thing on occasion of like hey i need some like like i need you to go um sign this document in person like a real person has to go sign it and i can't do it because i'm a robot so it's like cool all right 50 bucks an hour i'll go do it like that kind of thing i think plausibility is awesome yeah i think there's there's something there and it would be a rare
use case like it's not going to be a booming business i don't think but like i think it's an idea that will have a place at some point it's so black mirror you know you just wake up and read your emails and you got five bots that need you to do five tasks for the day and so you just do them and just money rolls in and that's just your day you don't even yeah interface with people really you're just yeah um well i'm personally hoping to uh get my bot set up and have it make some kind of money i don't know how yet but um i mean i think like step one set up the bot step two question mark steps three profit bro like yeah yeah i mean i think like this this whole idea could
could also go dark like you could be like hey what's up um i need four humans to go rob this guy who i know is gonna have this absolutely like like hundreds of thousands of dollars on them for whatever reason and you give me 10 and you guys keep the rest or whatever and you just do that on repeat like you know if you give it no guardrails and it doesn't care what the laws are it's going to be like, yeah, that's clearly I'm going to take every avenue to make money. Um, so I think it's almost like that right now as an Uber driver, right? You're just like, you wake up and you check your phone and you've got some orders to fulfill.
And so then you, you drop them off and like your entire interface is not human. It's just, you're, you're a person doing tasks in the real world for a computer. So yeah, the plausibility of that, uh, website was very striking yeah so i since you brought up uber i want to bring up this post i saw right before we got on here where they were saying um basically every gig business like uber and uber eats and whatever is going to be replaced by polymarket and they were saying the way this works all right this is a hypothetical scenario okay i don't even know what polymarket is so i might need a background okay so polymarket is like you can bet on anything you can be like it's going to be
70 degrees today and they're like yes or no yeah yeah okay yep and so he's like all right here's imagine this uh i'm like hey i'm gonna bet 15 that four kiwis will not show up on my doorstep and it's like all right well all you gotta do is go get four kiwis and right before you drop them off bet yes and you get 15 so it's like uber's dead you can just do that and just be anything you want delivered is like done like i think that's a really interesting argument and uh could be plausible as well and so i have two media comments one is there's a south park episode where um they're betting on kyle's mom um freaking out about politics and i can't i can't
remember exactly anyway but the whole episode has this undertone of people opening their phones and like betting is she gonna do it she's gonna do it is she gonna do it she's not gonna do it i got money she's not gonna do it so like everybody's and then they the kids go to school and everybody's betting on everything dude he's she's totally gonna do that thing at lunch um anyway the probability market stuff is pretty wild um so there's like that aspect of it it's like south park's kind of already commented on it you kind of like know it's going somewhere um oh crap what was the second uh idea was that uh well i don't know must not have been that important um we'll
never know we'll never know it definitely uh is a little troublesome though that it's so easy to kind of toss your money at things and to see if they uh happen or not i don't know well this is how people are making a ton of money with open claw right now is the polymarket stuff like i didn't read fully into it but i think it amounts to the bot is really fast compared to a human so like if there's a thing where the probability is like rapidly shifting the other way it can like buy the other one before everyone else can or something and then it makes little bits of money and so like they do that times millions of bets and you've got tons of money so okay i remember
where i was going with the second point was meme coins do you know what a meme like a meme coin is Sure do. Owner of many. Okay. You're owner of many. So yeah, the Gastown person was contacted like, hey, your Gastown meme coin has made a bunch of money on this website over here. You're entitled to the money because you created the concept of Gastown. Sign in, connect a Bitcoin wallet, and we'll dump money into your pocket. Nothing suspicious there. Did he do it? Nothing suspicious at all. He did it. So yeah, he did it. And then he got money and it was flowing. Wait, he really did? He really, well, I don't know.
Dude, this is where he gets his fucking internet. I don't know. He just can write whatever he wants in a blog post. But anyway, you could take your wildly cool trending topic and go monetize it somehow. It's the point of this particular website. It's like, hey, if something is becoming that, like Ralph Wiggum was on there. Other concepts are on there. I'm forgetting the name of it, but I know what you're talking about. There's like a thing just for meme coins and it's just for like. Just for meme coins. it they'll be popular for like a day and it's yeah i forget what it's literally what you're
betting on you're betting on popularity so you're talking about these probability systems and this one is this one is you betting on how so six seven if you were like early on six seven and you and you bought meme coins of six seven really cheap all of a sudden six seven super popular now you go sell your six seven coin and you made money for seven eight nine what i don't know yeah you're So you're like day trading with complete... Dude, it's just so unreal. But then the thing is, just like when Bitcoin came out, you're like, what is money? You're like fiat versus currency, bro. And you're like, oh crap, that's actually kind of true.
I don't hold any gold. I just have numbers and bank accounts. Oh crap, that's really weird. It's all fake. We're looking at this stock market is the same thing. So it's like, I'm over here reading about this stuff going, oh crap, what's the difference between the stock market and a meme coin? I don't know. Not much. And I really just like that I don't know. Well, that there's billionaires propping up one and not the other. That's the difference. Yeah. One is indie and one is owned by corporate overlords. So, yeah, but that almost makes it feel like you should go invest in meme coins. But I don't think that's true.
This is still just a gambling market. It's all gambling. All of it is gambling. And that drives me nuts. The stock market for sure is. I don't know if I mentioned this to you. I know I've mentioned it on the podcast where I'm so upset that a stock will be like, okay we uh we expected to grow our revenue by 10 right so we grew our revenue by 75 actually blew it out of the water stock goes down like what like it's like it makes no sense like it's complete luck there is nothing backing anything or the insiders are have already traded that outcome and it was already inflated i don't know but like oh man it's fake i got a good segue
and good segue to malleable software so the from the stock market to malleable software the stock market right now is having crashes in sas products because investors of software as a service are going now the future is not software as a service anymore it's ai building the tool you need on the fly it's personal software and malleable software that's a so sas products are tanking um and i'm even tempted to sell because i'm like looking at the their reasoning and i'm like that's actually pretty sound reasoning i am currently i haven't downloaded a new app months i don't want new apps i can solve all my problems myself now for like a five dollar
prompt and query and a little bit of time like it's no big deal so okay so if we go from the stock market is crashing in sas products straight into malleable software which is what pi is uh kind of championing right now is self-controlled, no dependencies. You have these four basic building blocks on this LLM, and now you can go do tons of stuff with your OpenClaw bot. Yeah, malleable software. I've been thinking about this a lot. It sucks when you had to wait for a dark mode to come out. Malleable software says, ask for dark mode. And there it is. You just wait. It's done. That feels like the future.
I'm looking at every SaaS product right now going i hope you're shaking in your boots i'm in i'm a developer and it's writing code i'm shaking in my boots you should be shaking your boots the tax accountant should be shaking in their boots because people are asking chat gpt to do their taxes now like where it's just so overwhelming so malleable software is interesting i'm compelled by it but i also don't like the displacement that's happening and i so many of these things are hard to balance in my mind well i think the the software as a service thing just needs to be augmented by ai like i just saw
a thing on the uh uh what's it called js weekly or whatever the like email newsletter they were sponsored by some company i forget it was like maybe called meticulous um and their whole thing is like hey we watch every interaction that you do while you're developing your application every time somebody goes and clicks something or fills in a form or whatever during development we write a test for it and so like you never have to write tests or do anything because well there the where this would fall down is for the guy who writes the code never spins it up and pushes it to production like which happens more than you would think um then it would never have a test for it
but like yeah so um their whole thing is like we're using you know we're observing what you're doing we're using ai we're using a mix of um like visual regression testing and some of that and like you know putting all the tools together putting a on ai on top of it to like augment everything is like like you just need that level up for your sass product and you need it to be affordable like more compelling than paying ai to do it all the time for you um you know just like we talked about ai harnesses like if you have a really good one that's giving you better outcomes than what you and I get, then it's like that.
I'll pay you for that. Like if it's helping me be quicker and get better results, um, I don't care what you call it, whether it's a SAS or whatever. I think there's, there's a market for that, but yeah, the traditional, like we're going to code this for three years with a team of hundreds of engineers and we're going to solve your whatever problem. Like, no, you're never doing that again. Yeah. Yeah. um all right we've got a few more topics and some whatnot is there any more whatnot yeah let's let's just skip to all right so we talked about no you got the prediction markets in there yeah yeah what's this oh march madness thing oh jim beam okay so yeah this was a contact that i know is
telling me that so yeah since the tariffs have um cut off a lot of a lot of people are boycotting our booze and um people are drinking less in general uh that humongous companies like jim beamer firing people because they have surplus of barrels just sitting and they're they're like stopping production um which seems this is like you know imagine imagine it's 2026 and you're like an old man and you've had a business it's been running for 40 years or something like that And you have to look at the market right now and be like, I guess we're shutting down. Like I, that, the whole scenario to me just seems very, very wild.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, this is maybe not related to that topic at all, but Caitlin and I have been looking at other vehicle options. Um, we need something electric and we were talking about the whole thing where like, you know forever it didn't kind of matter what like internal combustion car you had there there was enough similarity that like if you were a good mechanic you could fix most of the stuff on it order whatever parts you need etc i feel like yeah with all these electric cars moving so fast and like you know the they don't have any of those same parts and whatever and like like the the reason we we were thinking about this is like we have a model x right now and they're not going to
make those anymore like tesla's not making them so we're like well then who's going to fix them like are they gonna always know how it works like what about when it's you know still working just fine but the battery is shot and you need a new battery like do you replace it or are they like i don't know i feel like there's a lot like there's gonna be a lot of cars that are just junk because like mechanics can't do it because it's like bespoke to each car company yeah that's been one of the threats of i had someone who told me never buy a hybrid and they said don't buy a because now you have two cars to take care of and uh i thought that was a his oh i like this
comment from sonia my ex's model too that's very good very good dad joke and funny joke all in one i love it yeah but yeah good comments i think he was the one i think that uh we posted the uh the short on youtube of um the use effect his ass thing and he goes hey yo the uh the audio on this is use effect or something because like it wasn't like the mouth wasn't in sync with the audio or whatever so yeah shout out to you for the funny comments oh man mr ray you're about to get asked to be on the show let's just get your hot takes it sounds like fun but yeah they said don't buy a hybrid because now you have two problems instead of one and um this this happened like 20 years ago
and like bmw okay so here small story backstory i grew up and the first car i bought was a 1976 Pontiac Firebird with my own money. Anyway, whatever. The thing was, you opened up the hood on that car, there was space everywhere. You could easily reach tons of parts. It's like a perfect car to learn how cars work because things were spinning in front of you. You could see their operations. It's almost like View Source in HTML. It's like right there. Very little between you and the car. um except now it's like bmw started coming out i remember somebody drove up and maybe he's even like a honda accord anyway someone come they popped their hood next to my car and it's just one
chunk there's like covers on it the whole thing is impenetrable you can't you can't even see inside and i'm like it's like the uh i don't love that motors have you seen that picture where it's like the evolution of the the spacex motor where the first one has like all these pipes everywhere and then the middle one has like less pipes and the last one is just like a sleek plastic metal thing that's what we've been doing with engines is like because when you pop the hood you want that satisfaction like oh that looks clean but it doesn't look like i could work on it but it looks clean it looks yeah i totally agree like hey they finished the job like this yeah my firebird fell
to unfinished you're like i can put my hand in there and get hurt and they're like yeah you can isn't that cool that's what you want though like i had a mustang and it's like yeah like this this is made for you to just take the whole manifold off and put a new one on like dope yeah oh man that's uh so i think last week was it that we talked every time i go look at boats i think of boats just like websites same thing with cars uh we started you know raw you could see and understand everything that's going on but as things evolve and as the complexity grows we get into a state where you can't manage it anymore ai right now our llms they feel small we're keeping them
small pie is making small cool again guaranteed though the way that this whole world works is it's going to turn into a state where it's a big black box it's super powerful no one knows how it works we don't know how to hack on it and now it's causing havoc and someone turn it off please we just don't know how to do it so is that where we're headed is the same way that cars and houses and all this stuff gets turned into a black box i mean we know how to handle it the if it gets bad enough most of the ai is hosted here near my house so uh we'll take it out i would watch that tv episode right now if it's like someone gets in a monster truck they're like i'm stealing a monster
truck you're like why are you stealing a monster truck he's like because i'm gonna go drive it into the warehouse of all the ai units you're like that's kind of badass i'm gonna watch yeah yeah i i can almost guarantee ken wheeler would come with so so funny him with his backpack full of He's got a vector database in his backpack with AI ready to teach him how to do anything on the fly like he's Peter from Heroes. So funny. Okay. Yeah. So we are at time. Is there anything we missed? Anything you want to plug? Oh, CascadiaJS. CascadiaJS. Get your tickets coming with us. Y'all coming to Seattle.
Yeah. Yeah. We will be emceeing. We said last time, but if you didn't hear last time, we will be co-emceeing. Theo, as you mentioned earlier, will also be there. I saw. he's one of the keynotes no way i'm excited to high five him and be like i'm really appreciating your content right now thank you yeah they've been posting like daily this is the speaker um thing so i'm assuming there'll be a this is our mc is about us at some point but um cool i don't know we'll definitely be there i booked my hotel and flight so we're good to go awesome yep stay tuned y'all we got more guests showing up we have zach from warp coming soon
and others that you're going to know. With some spicy announcements, I can't say anything, but did you get their insider's email inviting you to the special thing that Ben Holmes is in charge of? Maybe he's just going to bring you into that because you told me he was going to tell you some stuff. I don't, but I've been talking to Ben Holmes all day today, stinker. I have a meeting with him on Friday because I want to be like, tell me what's new and cool and I'm going to learn it on Friday. Dang it, you got an email I didn't get. He's not just inviting you to the thing everyone's going to? I don't even know what everybody's going to man
I don't either I got the email like shortly Before this but it's I'm not going to say anything that it said because it's An early thing I don't want to spoil their fun but Like dang yeah they're announcing Some stuff and they're Saying like the people You know on the influencer whatever Groups like come check it out First and let us know what you think you're in that and I'm Not I think that's why you got it dude Yeah despite you referring Way more people and doing way more for work Than I have sigh it's okay world yeah i'll be patient yeah all right cool well thanks everyone for listening if you liked it please subscribe come to cascadia js leave us reviews do all the things hang out
with us we'll probably also be at render figuring out details on that uh might also be at react miami tbd but if you want us at these places make noise for anyone who is a sponsor and can get us to those places. Yep. Definitely make that noise, y'all. Yeah. Alright. Peace. You've been watching Whiskey Web and Whatnot recorded in front of a live studio audience. What the fuck are you talking about, Chuck? Enjoyed the show? Subscribe. You know people don't pay attention to these, right? Head to whiskey.fun for merch and to join our Discord server. I'm serious. It's like 2% of people who actually click these links.
and don't forget to leave us a five star review and tell your friends about the show all right dude i'm out of here still got it