199: Father's Day Drinking w/ Typecraft

[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to Syntax. Welcome to a brand new episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast. Welcome to this week’s JS Party. Live from Ship Shape Studios, this is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. With your hosts, Robbie the Wagner, and me, Charles William Carpenter III. That’s right Charles. We drink whiskey and talk about web development.

[00:00:27] Intro: I mean, it’s all in the name. It’s not that deep. This is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Do not adjust your set.

[00:00:36] Robbie Wagner: Hey, what’s up everybody? Welcome to a Special Father’s Day edition of Whiskey Web and whatnot where I will not be drinking whiskey. And where Chuck is not here, you might realize because he did not meet the minimum quota for number of children for this episode. So, uh,

[00:00:54] Typecraft: you need three. At least.

[00:00:57] Robbie Wagner: yeah, yeah. Aaron Francis, you’re welcome.

[00:00:59] Robbie Wagner: If you wanna [00:01:00] jump on at some point. Um, yeah. But, uh, as you might have noticed, type craft is here as my guest host today. How’s it going?

[00:01:09] Typecraft: What’s up? How you doing? How we doing?

[00:01:12] Robbie Wagner: Good. Good, man. I mean, uh, I’m getting an average of like five hours of sleep a night. So like better than zero, but like still enough to make me like super clumsy and not, not doing the best job of everything.

[00:01:26] Typecraft: Yeah. Well, I mean, so you had twins, right?

[00:01:28] Robbie Wagner: Yep.

[00:01:29] Typecraft: What are their names, or are you not saying it?

[00:01:32] Robbie Wagner: No, I am, uh, Arthur and Henry, I.

[00:01:34] Typecraft: Oh man, those are good names. I like those names. That’s a really good name. Um, yeah, twins is not easy. And I would say if you are averaging almost five night, five hours a night with twins, you’re doing something right.

[00:01:48] Typecraft: For sure. I like a hundred percent.

[00:01:51] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah. We’re trying to get them on the, the same schedule, but like, you know, then you feed ‘em both and it takes ‘em forever to eat. I don’t understand, like all you need to do [00:02:00] is eat. Why does it take you so long to eat? But

[00:02:02] Typecraft: not even really eating. They’re just drinking,

[00:02:04] Typecraft: right?

[00:02:05] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Like it’s not that hard. I’m gonna do it right now. Sponsored by Michelob Ultra.

[00:02:09] Typecraft: oh my God. The M Ultra. That’s such a good dad beer.

[00:02:13] Robbie Wagner: I know, right?

[00:02:15] Typecraft: dad Beer. So I, I got a golf shirt to do some, like, you know, little dad core right here, but I couldn’t find a good dad Beer. I only had a sip of sunshine, which is a nice little IPA, which is actually local to me. In Connecticut, but, uh, yeah, not a mic.

[00:02:34] Typecraft: Ultra Mic Ultra’s actually like my dad’s favorite beer, which is so funny. You pulled that out.

[00:02:39] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, my dad always got Mick Ultra and , I don’t know, I, I never thought they were that tasty, but then like one day I just had one. I was like, you know what? There’s something about this that just hits Right. Like, I

[00:02:50] Robbie Wagner: get

[00:02:51] Typecraft: a seltzer. It’s a seltzer with like a little, little extra zing to it, you know? There’s not really a whole lot to it. It’s like 4% alcohol. Like they, they go down super [00:03:00] easy, I’m sure on like a nice hot summer day. It’s like super refreshing. A nice cold make Ultra,

[00:03:05] Robbie Wagner: yeah. Golfing. I don’t know if you golf, but,

[00:03:11] Typecraft: Yeah. Um, all right, so what were we talking about? Oh yeah, so your kids, you’re getting almost five hours a night of sleep

[00:03:17] Typecraft: or average, you said?

[00:03:19] Robbie Wagner: it’s hard to say ‘cause like I’m using the Apple watch to like track how long I’m sleeping and whatever, if I nap, like I think it fits before like 11:00 AM If you nap, it like counts as the previous night’s sleep too. So it’s hard to get like a total accurate number. But yeah, it’s somewhere between like five and five and a half hours a, a day.

[00:03:38] Typecraft: That’s not bad. But you’re napping.

[00:03:41] Robbie Wagner: Oh yeah. Whenever I can, I mean, not even on purpose. Sometimes I’m just like, Hey, I’m gonna watch this TV for a second. No, I’m not

[00:03:48] Robbie Wagner: like,

[00:03:49] Typecraft: Just out. Just completely out. Yeah, I get that too. so you’re getting, so that’s like five, five and a half hours of broken sleep then it’s not even like a

[00:03:56] Robbie Wagner: Right. Yep.

[00:03:58] Typecraft: Oh, man. All right. So [00:04:00] I remember, so I had twins as well for anyone who may not know. Like I, I also have twins. We, my wife and I started out, we had twins.

[00:04:07] Typecraft: Those were our first kids, and now we have a new baby. Her name’s Olivia and she’s wonderful. But I gotta say, and I’m sure you’ll agree with me so far, I’m sure this will be your take too. One baby is so much easier than twins. It’s not even close.

[00:04:23] Robbie Wagner: Oh yeah,

[00:04:24] Robbie Wagner: are your twins boys

[00:04:27] Typecraft: Uh, a boy and a girl.

[00:04:29] Robbie Wagner: oh, okay,

[00:04:29] Robbie Wagner: so not

[00:04:30] Typecraft: Theodore in Charlotte.

[00:04:32] Robbie Wagner: Oh, nice. Those are nice names. Old

[00:04:35] Typecraft: you would like, I figured you would like Theodore, since it’s Arthur and Henry’s view. Yeah.

[00:04:39] Robbie Wagner: yeah, yeah. , Yeah, so we, we have our two boy, our twins are, uh, identical. So we have that problem of like, I. Who’s who, right? Um, you can’t mess that up. They have like social security numbers now.

[00:04:52] Robbie Wagner: You can’t be like, uh, it’s, it’s whoever. so I

[00:04:55] Robbie Wagner: was gonna ask you how you dealt with that, but you didn’t have to deal with that, I guess.

[00:04:58] Typecraft: Didn’t have to deal with it. They’re [00:05:00] very, very different children. It’s very funny how different they are. , Sometimes like, just thinking back on like some of the things that they do, like in just in their personalities. Like, uh, you know, you look back and then you’re like, why?

[00:05:14] Typecraft: What is going on? Like, we raised these kids the same exact way. They’re twins, like raising the same way. How are they so different from one another? , But you are not gonna have that problem.

[00:05:24] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I mean, we’ll see, I knew, um, some identical twins in high school where like, one was like super, like on the football team, preppy guy, you know, whatever. The other guy was like skateboarder, like punk rock style. Like, I was like, okay, I don’t know how you guys are this different, but, , you know, we’ll see.

[00:05:43] Robbie Wagner: I guess

[00:05:44] Typecraft: Yeah. Oh, they’re both athletes, you know, like, maybe they’re both like just athletic people, just applied it to different things.

[00:05:50] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:05:51] Typecraft: Yeah. But yeah, that is

[00:05:52] Robbie Wagner: yeah. So how much, uh, how much sleep are you getting? Your, how old is your, your baby now?

[00:05:56] Typecraft: Uh, she is now six weeks old, [00:06:00] which, how old are your twins? I.

[00:06:02] Robbie Wagner: They will be a month old on the ninth. What day is it now? A few, few days away from that, I guess. that’s fucking nuts. I don’t envy you right now. I’m sorry. I just don’t, that’s

[00:06:15] Robbie Wagner: yeah.

[00:06:16] Typecraft: so she’s a pretty good baby. Um, we have a good routine now too. My wife, I with her. , So how it works is, I mean, my wife is still on leave. I, I’m a super fortunate guy when it comes to like this company I’m working for, uh, my full-time job.

[00:06:30] Typecraft: I have four months of paid vacation, paid, you know, family leave, paternity leave, which is

[00:06:34] Robbie Wagner: That’s a lot.

[00:06:35] Typecraft: Yeah. I feel very like, not everyone gets that. And they allow you to split it up. So I took a month off. I just came off of leave like last week or week and a half ago. And then, uh, I’m working in the summer while my wife still has her leave.

[00:06:49] Typecraft: She takes like three months off and then I get to come back on leave. I. September and I get to take basically like mid-September to mid-November [00:07:00] off. So now Olivia, our new baby doesn’t have to go into daycare until next January. January next year, basically.

[00:07:08] Typecraft: So

[00:07:08] Robbie Wagner: Right, because once you hit like November 10th, nobody works

[00:07:12] Typecraft: no, no one works. I’ll log in, I’ll type, like, I’ll type like Claude, how do I fix this ticket? And then submit some.

[00:07:23] Robbie Wagner: yeah, yeah. So I got, uh, I get eight weeks, I took four, and then I’m taking four more and like, we haven’t really decided exactly when yet. Some, sometime around September, probably.

[00:07:33] Typecraft: I mean, eight weeks is pretty good.

[00:07:34] Typecraft: Are you at, uh, Amazon still?

[00:07:37] Robbie Wagner: No, I’m at, uh, Hashi Corp. Uh, which is now IBM. So IBM actually has 12 weeks, but I get the Hashi Corp one, which

[00:07:45] Robbie Wagner: was

[00:07:45] Typecraft: Oh, you lucky dog. You, oh, that’s cool. So I, oh, I didn’t know you worked at, um, HashiCorp.

[00:07:52] Typecraft: that’s

[00:07:53] Typecraft: awesome.

[00:07:53] Robbie Wagner: relatively new

[00:07:54] Robbie Wagner: development.

[00:07:55] Typecraft: I know he hasn’t, he probably hasn’t been involved in a super long time, but I like Mitchell a lot. He’s a [00:08:00] cool guy, for sure.

[00:08:01] Robbie Wagner: Hmm.

[00:08:01] Robbie Wagner: I don’t know what the acquisition is gonna mean for day to day. Everything, you know, I’m sure there’s gonna be a lot more red tape and things to do, but, , I’m optimistic, like so far, IBM has been like, everything they’ve said has like, been, you know, prioritizing, treating people well and everything.

[00:08:18] Robbie Wagner: Like, you know, we’re gonna match all the same benefits. If it, if our benefits cost more, we’re gonna pay for that like, difference. And like, they have like a pretty nice, they have a pension plan and a 401k plan and like, I don’t know, it seems like a good place to like work until you retire potentially, if technology exists that long.

[00:08:36] Typecraft: Yeah, I mean, it makes sense like IB M’s. Such an old school company, you would hope they have some of those, like more old school things in place.

[00:08:43] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:08:44] Typecraft: I haven’t worked, God, I don’t think I worked for a single company that’s been older than like five years in my whole entire career. Like seriously, I don’t think I have.

[00:08:54] Typecraft: It’s, it’s been only startups.

[00:08:56] Robbie Wagner: Mm. So you have a lot of really, uh, valuable equity then.[00:09:00]

[00:09:00] Typecraft: I have no valuable equity.

[00:09:03] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. That was the joke.

[00:09:05] Typecraft: Yeah.

[00:09:05] Typecraft: Okay. So I, my very first Ruby on Rails job, this is the worst blunder in my professional career in terms of like money and like managing that stuff. My very first Ruby on Rails job was with a company called Teladoc. Now, I don’t know if you know who that is or whatever.

[00:09:20] Robbie Wagner: I’ve definitely seen it. It’s not like I haven’t heard of it before, but I don’t know what they do

[00:09:24] Typecraft: so nowadays they’re a publicly traded company. When I started there, it was not, it was a startup. It was just like getting going. Um, we were just moving, I think all of our code from PHP to Ruby on Rails. My first rails job. I was super excited about it. you know, long story short, I worked there for a couple of years and then like moved to Boston.

[00:09:43] Typecraft: That was when we lived, I lived, uh, in Connecticut. The company was based outta Greenwich at the time, Greenwich, Connecticut. , And so I moved to Boston and I worked remote for a little bit, but then this is before I didn’t wanna work remote. Really. It’s like 15 years ago. It was like before people did remote, like normally, and so they didn’t have anything really [00:10:00] set up for remote work.

[00:10:00] Typecraft: And so I felt very like, okay, this isn’t really working out that well. So I left the company. Three months later I see that they are going IPO or whatever. They’re going public. And it was literally two days. After I was able to buy my shares in the company. Like when you leave, they had a, they had a clause that said like, oh, you have 90 days to buy, you know your shares if you still want them or whatever.

[00:10:25] Typecraft: And I was like, okay, yeah, sounds good. Whatever. I’m, I don’t care. , I’m 25 years old who, who gives a shit. And then, uh, sure enough, I see they’re going public and I, I email like the CTO ‘cause like, I still, I guess I kind of kept in touch with him and I was like, is there any way I could still buy my shirt?

[00:10:37] Typecraft: He’s like, no.

[00:10:39] Robbie Wagner: Oh

[00:10:39] Typecraft: was like, shit. And that company, I mean, they’re still publicly traded. They’re a pretty big company, even still. So I guess if we were to go back to that original joke you made, , I would’ve had, , some valuable equity, but I do not,

[00:10:55] Robbie Wagner: Well, that’s closer than some people get. I worked at a couple of startups and they, uh, [00:11:00] never had valuable equity still to this day. Like they usually get acquired or like whatever, and like a couple people that started the company make a few dollars, but like then they kind of just go away.

[00:11:10] Typecraft: I had a couple really good, like, I guess you would call ‘em, like micro, I can’t stop thinking of micro penis, micro penises. I had a couple good micro penises, micro micro exits, I guess you would call it. Micro exit. in companies that I worked for. Like one of them got acquired, I worked for, for a couple years and they’re acquired by this holding company and like my shares worth like, eh, like $10,000 or something.

[00:11:32] Typecraft: It was a nice little like bonus, you know, it’s not life changing money, but it’s fun. but yeah, nothing really big. That’s, uh, nothing big at all.

[00:11:39] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I mean, nothing is as big as if I had just kept a Bitcoin or two.

[00:11:43] Typecraft: Oh my

[00:11:44] Robbie Wagner: I hate that. I did not do that.

[00:11:46] Typecraft: I know. And now it’s like every, every all time high. I’m like, nah, there’s no way I’m gonna get suckered into this. It’s just

[00:11:51] Typecraft: gonna like.

[00:11:52] Robbie Wagner: yeah. Yeah. I still think of it as being worth like a max of a couple thousand, so I’m like, no way. This is gonna crash. And then it doesn’t,

[00:11:59] Robbie Wagner: I [00:12:00] don’t know, maybe nothing is ever gonna crash. I’m just always worried everything’s gonna crash because I’m like, real estate is like way too expensive.

[00:12:06] Robbie Wagner: It’s gonna crash too. Nope. Hasn’t so far.

[00:12:09] Typecraft: Isn’t this this fun world we live in?

[00:12:11] Typecraft: Have you been trying to house shop recently by any chance?

[00:12:13] Robbie Wagner: We moved into this house, uh, almost two years ago. that was during it sucking, so, yeah.

[00:12:21] Typecraft: Well, fortunately for you, it’s only sucked worse since then. I think like rates have only continued to rise and at least in my area, and I’m sure your area too,

[00:12:30] Typecraft: property values also rise, so it’s like, how is both going up at the same time? It doesn’t even make any sense, but sure enough, like.

[00:12:36] Typecraft: like a cape house, like a 1200 square foot little, you know, Cape House. We, I live in like this nice little neighborhood. It’s nothing too crazy. It’s not like full of like mansions or anything. But these little residential houses go in the market for like an insane amount of money.

[00:12:49] Typecraft: Like double what They would’ve gone on when I bought this house. And like this little cape is going on for 600 grand, like right down the street. It’s like a 1200 square foot, two bedroom house. And [00:13:00] everyone around is like, oh, that’s not going for 600. That’s gonna go for way more. It’s like, how, how, how does that happen?

[00:13:06] Typecraft: I couldn’t afford that. That’s insane.

[00:13:08] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I missed the days when you listed it high and you got to negotiate down. Now it’s the other way. It’s like you gotta come with extra money and be like, Hey, I don’t know what everyone else offered, but here’s an extra a hundred grand. Just like, please give it to me.

[00:13:21] Typecraft: Yeah. And then they’re like, Ooh, I see you have a contingency in here. You want this house inspected? Um, no thanks.

[00:13:26] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah. We, we did that for, uh, I can’t remember. We’ve moved a lot because we, , kind of fucked up how we wanted to live. Uh, we lived in Alexandria for a while and like, you know, city living loved that pandemic hit. We moved to like way country, like 10 acres of land. Hated that because it was like so much maintenance so far to like 45 minute drive to target.

[00:13:49] Robbie Wagner: My wife’s like, you can’t do

[00:13:50] Robbie Wagner: that. So then, uh, we moved again, like, you know, three times in the span of like five years. So

[00:13:55] Typecraft: Okay.

[00:13:56] Robbie Wagner: we’ve really messed that up a lot,

[00:13:57] Typecraft: Where are you guys living now?

[00:13:58] Robbie Wagner: I. We’re in [00:14:00] great falls, so like we still have a little bit of land, , like an ac and a half or so, and then

[00:14:04] Typecraft: Oh, that’s nice.

[00:14:05] Robbie Wagner: 15 minute drive to target.

[00:14:06] Robbie Wagner: So like, best of both worlds.

[00:14:08] Typecraft: That’s a good barometer too. If like you’re not too far away from like a major like store, then you’re doing pretty good. I.

[00:14:13] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:14:14] Typecraft: I like where I’m living right now. We’re in southern Connecticut where it’s like, just, just outside of New York City, but it’s far enough that like, it’s not like the main like commuter hub, but a lot of people still, it’s in the Fairfield, Connecticut area.

[00:14:25] Typecraft: It’s like kind of that area. so it’s just far enough outside. I have a, I have a little yard. It’s not an acre. Maybe it’s like a quarter of an acre if you were to, you know, think about it in terms of acres. , But it’s a, it’s a nice little house, beautiful neighborhood, and I can walk to the train and the train can take me to New York City or all the way up to like Maine or something.

[00:14:41] Typecraft: So I feel like it’s a good mix of like, kind of urbany, but it’s not like a big city at all.

[00:14:45] Robbie Wagner: yeah, I love trains.

[00:14:47] Typecraft: it’s my favorite way to travel.

[00:14:49] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah, it’s great. Unless they derail. We never have one derail on me though.

[00:14:54] Typecraft: That only happens in Ohio. I heard

[00:14:56] Robbie Wagner: I don’t know. There’s, there’s been more and more, I feel like every type of transportation [00:15:00] is just like shitting the bed right now. I don’t really know what’s happening, but I’m just gonna ignore it.

[00:15:04] Typecraft: Yeah, I know that’s the best way to go about life. Just ignore it. Just worry about your little slice of the world and try not to worry too much about anything else.

[00:15:13] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:15:14] Typecraft: Which for you, your little slice of the world just got a little bit bigger, so you got plenty to worry about.

[00:15:19] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we do on this show have one segment we usually do hot takes. I try to make a few dad hot takes to see, see what we think here. They’re not super hot, but, you know, whatever. I’ve been busy. Don’t have time to, to think about it that much, so let’s do it. Tall socks or ankle socks.

[00:15:41] Typecraft: Tall socks are way more comfortable and if you have a nice pair of jorts to pair with them, they look fantastic. Extra points if you also have sandals,

[00:15:50] Typecraft: tall socks.

[00:15:51] Robbie Wagner: See, traditionally I would agree, but I think the thing now is like, what’s the gen now? Is it Gen Z that thinks this? I guess they’re like, they say the [00:16:00] ankle socks are the dad socks. ‘cause that’s like what we grew up wearing. And like the, your dad wore the tall socks, so you wear like the shorter socks or whatever.

[00:16:08] Robbie Wagner: But now it’s like, come full circle, I guess I’m like, well now I don’t know what to do. Right? Like you want that classic dad aesthetic, but you also want to be like wearing the thing that’s most annoying to your children. So like what do you do?

[00:16:21] Typecraft: Mm-hmm. I mean, I think no matter what, you need a fanny pack.

[00:16:25] Typecraft: yeah. That’s something. But,

[00:16:26] Typecraft: uh, yeah. Damn. I didn’t even think about that. I guess you’re right though. Like the ankle sock is like the sock of the millennials, right?

[00:16:33] Typecraft: Like that’s, you know, we grew up doing ankle socks, so I guess that makes sense.

[00:16:38] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah. It’s crazy.

[00:16:40] Typecraft: Time is a flat circle.

[00:16:41] Robbie Wagner: Yep. Related New Balances or Nikes.

[00:16:46] Typecraft: Ooh. I haven’t had a name, name, brand, pair of sneakers, and I don’t even know how long, but I would go with, if we’re talking Dad Core, I’m going New Balance for sure. All day. All day, [00:17:00] every day.

[00:17:01] Robbie Wagner: I’ve never had any new balances. I feel like I should get some and try ‘em. I actually have like six or seven pairs of the same Nikes with different color checks, just ‘cause I like that

[00:17:13] Typecraft: Do you match ‘em to like a hat that you’re wearing or something?

[00:17:15] Robbie Wagner: I do sometimes. , And sometimes on accident, like I’ll have a really matched, like fully head to toe matching and I’m like, oh, people are gonna notice this and be like, that guy’s a weirdo.

[00:17:26] Typecraft: I mean, that’s a millennial thing I think, too.

[00:17:28] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:17:29] Robbie Wagner: Gas or charcoal grill.

[00:17:32] Typecraft: Ooh. , Okay, so this is probably everyone’s take, I mean, I guess it is a mild take, but like charcoal grills taste better, but gas grills perform better and are more convenient,

[00:17:42] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I think that’s, that’s probably true. I was looking into getting a big green egg when we moved into this

[00:17:48] Typecraft: right? Yep.

[00:17:49] Robbie Wagner: cause I thought that sounded awesome. Like, you can do pizza in it too. Like, you do everything you want. I don’t care if it takes a while ‘cause I enjoy the craft. Like, let’s just do it.

[00:17:56] Robbie Wagner: yeah. Life does not give you time to enjoy the craft of most [00:18:00] things. So

[00:18:00] Typecraft: Absolutely not. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve thought the exact same thing.

[00:18:05] Typecraft: I mean similar to the Green Egg thing, right? Like I got one of those pizza grills. I think it’s, I dunno if it’s the uni or if it’s a different brand. , It’s so not on the top of my head because I just haven’t used it in the past couple years.

[00:18:15] Typecraft: But like we bought it and I was thinking, okay, do we, do we shell out a little bit more for like the gas version of this, like the propane version or do we just do like the wood pellet thing? And I was like, okay, yeah, we’ll just do wood pellets. It’s not that hard to manage super easy, just let up some wood pellets.

[00:18:29] Typecraft: Even that little extra step is just too much for me to like overcome. I haven’t, I just don’t use it. ‘cause it like takes too much time and effort Being a dad, it’s just, it’s all about efficiency

[00:18:41] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:18:42] Typecraft: and that is

[00:18:43] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I mean, I’m looking forward to these twins not being newborns, but like right now it is definitely all about efficiency. ‘cause it’s like So I also, we also have two dogs. Do you have any pets? Do.

[00:18:53] Typecraft: I have a dog and a cat.

[00:18:55] Robbie Wagner: Okay. Are they high maintenance or pretty easy.

[00:18:57] Typecraft: They’re actually both really easy, [00:19:00] although the cat was on my roof this morning

[00:19:02] Typecraft: and I don’t know how she got there. Oh, she got down. She’s fine.

[00:19:07] Robbie Wagner: nice.

[00:19:08] Typecraft: Yeah.

[00:19:09] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, so one of our dogs, like his back legs don’t work, so you have to like carry him around. He like poops in the house all the time, like stuff like that. So dealing with that have to get up at like 5:00 AM for that. ‘cause he’s like, I gotta poop right now. So we’ve got that extra like in between the babies trying to eat and sleep and stuff.

[00:19:27] Robbie Wagner: We got that.

[00:19:28] Typecraft: that’s tough.

[00:19:29] Robbie Wagner: yeah, it’s, it’s just a lot of chaos. But like what were we saying before that?

[00:19:33] Typecraft: Uh, it’s all about

[00:19:34] Robbie Wagner: my schedule? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like,

[00:19:36] Robbie Wagner: I have like an hour from when I take him out to go to the bathroom, to when like the twins are up and then all day I have no time. And then like When our, uh, older son goes to bed, then we have like one hour where we can like watch one show and then we go to bed. It’s kind of like our whole schedule, but like in between that, it’s like you’re starting the bottle washer, you’re washing other dishes, you’re doing chores, you’re doing [00:20:00] everything.

[00:20:00] Robbie Wagner: You’re watching the kids, you’re playing with them. Like you, there’s no free time. So I don’t understand how like it’s supposed to work. I guess everyone just gets nannies if they really, really need to work, but like,

[00:20:09] Typecraft: God, I want a nanny so bad.

[00:20:12] Robbie Wagner: yeah.

[00:20:13] Typecraft: I like, I mean, that seems like such a luxurious like, , thing that nobody could ever even like reasonably want, but once you have enough kids, I feel like it’s one of those things where it’s like, why, why wouldn’t I have a nanny? Like if I could afford it, I would absolutely get a nanny.

[00:20:25] Typecraft: Like, that’s not even a question in my life.

[00:20:28] Robbie Wagner: And cost wise, I mean, I, I haven’t looked at the cost, but like, you know, preschool or daycare or whatever is also super expensive. So like if you’re putting three kids in preschool, is it just as cheap to like have a nanny? I don’t know.

[00:20:42] Typecraft: that’s a good point. I think you’re right. , And especially where I live, two kids in preschool at the same time would be probably more expensive than a nanny.

[00:20:51] Robbie Wagner: There you go.

[00:20:52] Typecraft: In fact, it was, it was like, it was almost $4,000 a month.

[00:20:59] Robbie Wagner: Oh my God. [00:21:00] Yeah. We’re paying 900 for three half days a week. Like, what the fuck? Like, it doesn’t go up exponentially though. It’s kind of like a flat, like we started with two half days and then three half days is like 50 bucks more or something. And so like when they go full time, it’s still like a thousand bucks.

[00:21:17] Robbie Wagner: Like it’s not

[00:21:18] Typecraft: Yeah. And then as I get older, it gets a little cheaper usually, I think. Um, so it’s not too bad, but yeah, it’s crazy. I don’t know. I don’t even know how we did it with the twins as wild. So good luck with that.

[00:21:29] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I don’t know how like schooling at all works because like, I don’t know about you and maybe it’s just ‘cause we’re their parents, right? But like the kids just don’t listen at all. You’re like, do anything. And they’re like, no, I would, I will do the opposite right now. So I’m like, I can’t imagine being a teacher with like 20 children and just any of them at any point could go, I ain’t doing that.

[00:21:52] Robbie Wagner: Like

[00:21:53] Typecraft: It surprises me every single day.

[00:21:55] Typecraft: Like literally every day they get home from school, they go nuts in at home. They [00:22:00] don’t listen, like you said, they don’t do anything that we ask, but it’s like, I mean, and then I can, I, I can’t help but think like, how the hell do these kids ever do anything in the classroom?

[00:22:08] Typecraft: you know what it is, I think there’s a couple things to it. You know, I think the, you know, your teachers, they’re not quite as familiar with the teacher as they are with you, right? Like, you, you are like their parent. They’re like, yeah, you, you play with them. You have fun with them. You do like unstructured stuff with them all the time.

[00:22:21] Typecraft: Like, go to the store or do whatever. So like, they’re more used to just sort of doing whatever with you. But I think with the teacher and in school, two things happen. I think one is like a teacher is more of a. Authority figure of like, I don’t know you quite as well, but you are always telling me what to do and I have to do certain things all the time.

[00:22:37] Typecraft: So like I’m just gonna listen. And the other one is like, I think there’s a bit of a group element where like every other kid in the class kinda listens, I think because of that sort of reinforces Yeah, I’m gonna listen to, ‘cause everyone else is doing this as well. I will say though, Teddy was really tough in daycare.

[00:22:52] Typecraft: He did not listen at all.

[00:22:54] Typecraft: as he got older. He got a little more, you know, like the maturity level and stuff like, but uh, in, in daycare he had, there was a few [00:23:00] times where he would just be like kicking and screaming and going nuts. It’s wild. I don’t know how, uh, teachers are, I think woefully underpaid

[00:23:09] Robbie Wagner: Oh

[00:23:09] Typecraft: the US for

[00:23:10] Typecraft: sure.

[00:23:12] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Teachers and, social workers

[00:23:15] Typecraft: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:16] Robbie Wagner: , Policemen, firefighters, all of the people that like hold up society, make no money, which makes no sense.

[00:23:22] Typecraft: Yeah. Yep. They deserve a hell of a lot more.

[00:23:24] Robbie Wagner: Oh, I got a good one. When you’re parking the car, pull in forwards or backwards.

[00:23:30] Typecraft: Forwards all the time.

[00:23:32] Robbie Wagner: Okay.

[00:23:33] Typecraft: Yeah.

[00:23:34] Robbie Wagner: Always

[00:23:34] Typecraft: is kinda like, yeah. Yeah. Always forward. I’ve never, anytime I have to go backwards, I’m always annoyed by it, and then there’s always something in the trunk I have to get, but it’s like against like a door or something else. So, always forward.

[00:23:45] Typecraft: Always.

[00:23:45] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Most of these were, uh, suggestions from chat GPT, so I was just like, Hey, that’s a good one. ‘cause like my dad always backs into spots. I’m like, why do you do this? Because, like, it’s confusing to other people. You pull up and they’re like, oh, they’re like, they’re keeping going, they’re turning whatever.

[00:23:59] Robbie Wagner: And it’s like, [00:24:00] then you stop and back up into a spot.

[00:24:02] Typecraft: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:03] Robbie Wagner: It’s weird.

[00:24:04] Typecraft: a weird thing to do. I disagree with it fully.

[00:24:07] Typecraft: I hate anyone who backs into a spot

[00:24:11] Typecraft: completely.

[00:24:12] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:24:13] Robbie Wagner: Baseball or football?

[00:24:15] Typecraft: Football. A hundred percent. How about you?

[00:24:19] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, football for me, well, I was gonna say, it depends if you’re watching or playing, but No, it doesn’t. ‘cause I, I like football better for both. but yeah, baseball is like this weird thing for me, like. And I haven’t watched it since. They like sped it up a little bit. I don’t forget when they did that like a few years ago or something.

[00:24:36] Robbie Wagner: But like, it used to just be so boring to watch. Like it was, it’s really fun to go to, ‘cause you can have your snacks, you can go do the like other little like activities and stuff. but yeah, on tv I would never watch it like

[00:24:48] Typecraft: I feel like baseball and even people who really love baseball would agree. I’m speaking on behalf of everyone who loves baseball here. I know. I know what everyone thinks. No, but um, I think even people who [00:25:00] love baseball, I feel like you’d be lying to yourself if you didn’t say that baseball was. it’s more of like a vibe than anything else.

[00:25:06] Typecraft: You know, like baseball is like, it’s like a warm day. You’re with all your friends, like you’re on the field. Like you got your glove, you got your like the bat, you got your like the pine tar in your hands, like the smell of everything. Like, I feel like baseball’s more about like the vibe of like the sport itself than like the real physical actions of playing baseball.

[00:25:26] Typecraft: I mean, of course, like playing baseball is fun for sure, but I just feel like it’s more about like comradery your teammates hanging out in the, you know, dugout. Like all the stuff that goes on during a game as well as playing the game itself. And I think it’s, it’s more about like that, whereas like something like football or basketball, it’s like all action all the time.

[00:25:47] Typecraft: Like you’re constantly on the field, off the field, pay attention to what’s going on. Like there’s more, there’s more to it I think. Like it’s a little bit more fast paced, whereas baseball’s more like a, it’s a vibe,

[00:25:57] Robbie Wagner: yeah,

[00:25:57] Typecraft: sport. More a vibe.

[00:25:59] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. It’s kind of [00:26:00] like, uh, like golf where you don’t actually care about. Playing that much. You’re there to hang out with your boys and ride around.

[00:26:06] Typecraft: Mm-hmm. Although if you do play badly, then you, I definitely become a little bit of, a little bit of a cranky b when I’m not playing well. So I definitely, uh, I also care about playing.

[00:26:18] Robbie Wagner: Okay. For, for golfing or, or, okay.

[00:26:22] Typecraft: I think as I got older though, I, I care a lot less, but when I was a little bit younger, like, am I, like, you know, like 10, 15 years ago, I would care a lot more. I’d get like so angry.

[00:26:34] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I’ve tried to golf some and, uh, I think I’ve only like done a full, 18, , three times maybe. But like I have to be able to see where the hole

[00:26:45] Typecraft: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:46] Robbie Wagner: if it’s like a, around a corner thing or whatever. I. I ain’t doing it like it’s gonna be like, my, my main goal is just always to not lose the ball.

[00:26:56] Robbie Wagner: I’m like, I don’t care if it takes me 15 hits, I just don’t wanna lose the ball. [00:27:00] So

[00:27:01] Typecraft: I mean, that’s the game within the game is not losing a ball. Like that’s, I feel like that’s how, you know you’re getting pretty good at golf is if you, if you don’t go through like a whole sleeve of balls during like, or nine holes or something.

[00:27:10] Robbie Wagner: yeah. I do think it’s fun. I think it’s potentially almost just as fun to ride around in the cart and not

[00:27:17] Typecraft: Mm-hmm. I agree.

[00:27:19] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:27:20] Typecraft: I fully endorse that as someone who actually owns a golf cart and drives around my neighborhood. I

[00:27:25] Typecraft: completely agree with that.

[00:27:28] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, we have a golf cart at the beach and, uh, we ride around in that, which now they make you have, uh, seat belts is a new thing,

[00:27:35] Typecraft: Oh really?

[00:27:36] Robbie Wagner: which is weird,

[00:27:37] Robbie Wagner: but.

[00:27:37] Typecraft: Yeah. You know what though? All the, all the major golf cart brands, this is such a stupid conversation now. Such like a privilege, like, oh, you know, every major cart. Every major golf cart brand, uh, every consumer golf cart brand has. Uh, but no, they seriously have a lot of, um, I feel like every brand has a ton of parts for it.

[00:27:56] Typecraft: Like there’s so many enthusiasts out there who care so much about [00:28:00] golf carts that like, it’s so easy to just find like seat belts for like an easy go or something, you know what I mean? It’s like just not that hard to find that stuff.

[00:28:08] Robbie Wagner: yeah, yeah. I’m just curious why they decided all of a sudden, like I, I don’t know if it’s a like Myrtle Beach law or a South Carolina law, or like somebody decided it’s a law that you have to have like a seatbelt if you’re under, I don’t know, maybe if you can’t drive a car or something, like you don’t have a license, you have to have a seat belt on.

[00:28:26] Robbie Wagner: I don’t know the exact details, but my parents were telling me about it. ‘cause we’re gonna go to the beach this summer, and we were like, well, how do we get down to the beach? Because we have like a golf cart with no seat belts and a kid who is three.

[00:28:39] Robbie Wagner: So

[00:28:40] Typecraft: Yeah. Oh, so your oldest is three.

[00:28:44] Robbie Wagner: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:45] Typecraft: Oh man.

[00:28:45] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, so he’s a, he’s a threenager and uh,

[00:28:48] Typecraft: major. Yep.

[00:28:49] Robbie Wagner: he has discovered that you can just say back to you, whatever you just said, and it just pisses me off to no end. And my wife is like, just leave the room if he does that. I’m [00:29:00] like, no. I want to tell him. It pisses me off and to stop doing it.

[00:29:03] Typecraft: No, I have to make this right, right now. He’s gotta know. They’ve gotta know.

[00:29:08] Robbie Wagner: Which of course it never

[00:29:09] Typecraft: yeah, I know. That’s, it’s so funny, the certain ages, like my kids, uh, my, my twins are six. And so I feel, I feel like that was a really good gap. , I hope Does your, so your oldest son doesn’t feel like he’s competitive with your babies right now, right?

[00:29:24] Typecraft: I mean, maybe that comes

[00:29:25] Typecraft: later. Yeah,

[00:29:27] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, no. I mean, I think they’ll be competitive. Like I don’t think he’s gonna have that initial thing that we were worried about, where like, he doesn’t get attention, he’s still getting plenty of attention. He is not like, he’s not upset right now, but when they’re older, I think they’re gonna be like, you know, who’s better at sports?

[00:29:41] Robbie Wagner: Who’s better at this? Like, they’re gonna definitely be competitive.

[00:29:44] Typecraft: yeah, our kids are, they have a five year gap, so I think, or actually six years. They were six when Olivia was born. Yeah. So hopefully they don’t have too much of a problem with that. My kids are six. And it’s so funny every ‘cause I have like vague memories of like, you know, [00:30:00] pissing off my dad and like, like when I was like a, like a kid, like 4, 5, 6, 7 years old or something. And I always thought that was really funny ‘cause I, I remember growing up being like, I’m gonna be a cool dad.

[00:30:09] Typecraft: Like, I’m not gonna get angry at all this stuff. But it’s like when you have kids and like, that time is sort of taken away from you, not taken away. It, it’s wonderful having kids. I love having kids. It’s amazing. I suggest everyone does it, but it’s something that ha is a trade off. You lose a lot of that time that you.

[00:30:26] Typecraft: Probably grew accustomed to having as you were getting, like, you know, in your adulthood, all of a sudden that’s gone and then you have a lot more obligations on top of you, and then you have this little fucking brat.

[00:30:40] Robbie Wagner: Yep.

[00:30:42] Typecraft: No, I, and I, I mean, my kids are great, but it’s just so funny. Like, I see it now, I can understand like how an adult can get upset at, at a 4-year-old. You know, like, I get that now. It’s not even like, it’s, it’s totally understandable. I remember growing up being like, I’m never gonna get upset with my kids.

[00:30:56] Typecraft: But it’s like, it, I just, it’s, it makes so much sense when you [00:31:00] take together the context of your whole entire life, you know? And it’s like you only have so much patience in your life and like, it’s hard to like sort of take a step back and be like, it’s fine. But in the moment you’re like, no, don’t say that.

[00:31:13] Typecraft: I told you not to,

[00:31:15] Robbie Wagner: yeah.

[00:31:16] Robbie Wagner: Which is what they want. They want you to do

[00:31:18] Robbie Wagner: that,

[00:31:18] Typecraft: Yes, I know.

[00:31:19] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I

[00:31:21] Typecraft: oh.

[00:31:21] Robbie Wagner: remember my parents. Yeah. My parents would always say to me, I don’t remember how old I was, but like I would say something that I didn’t even think, like I wasn’t super like trying to piss them off, but I would just like respond to something they said and they’d be like, don’t talk back to me.

[00:31:34] Robbie Wagner: And I’d be like, I don’t even really know what you mean by that, but okay, now I get it. Like if you say, if I tell you to do a thing and you say any words, I’m like, I didn’t say to say any fucking words, like, go do what I told you to do.

[00:31:47] Typecraft: yeah. The whole, because I said so, like, makes a lot of sense. It’s like I don’t, ‘cause some of the times it’s like, why do you want me to do this? Like, I think part of it is, I don’t even know, it’s just what you do. Like of course, like just take a shower. Like, why? Because I, [00:32:00] you’re dirty. I don’t know.

[00:32:00] Typecraft: Just do it. I said, so

[00:32:04] Robbie Wagner: Yeah,

[00:32:05] Typecraft: why is it bedtime at seven 30? I, I don’t know. Just go to bed. I get it. I totally get that.

[00:32:12] Robbie Wagner: yeah.

[00:32:14] Robbie Wagner: Oh

[00:32:14] Typecraft: I feel like I’m giving off the wrong energy here. I love my kids.

[00:32:18] Typecraft: It’s, but I’m just commiserating. ‘cause I totally get where you’re coming from with that

[00:32:22] Robbie Wagner: I think, yeah, I think every, every parent has, has had those

[00:32:26] Typecraft: Yeah, you gotta be honest with yourself, you know, that’s, you just, you get a certain way, it makes sense. It it, yeah. It’s totally understandable.

[00:32:32] CTA: This just in! Whiskey.fund is now open for all your merch needs. That’s right, Robbie. We’re hearing reports of hats, sweaters, and T-shirts, as well as a link to join our Discord server. What’s a Discord server? Just read the prompter, man. Hit subscribe. Leave us a review on your favorite podcast app and tell your friends about our broadcast. It really does help us reach more people and keeps the show growing. All [00:33:00] right, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[00:33:05] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. So I do wanna pivot a little bit, talk about, uh, some big Sky devcon stuff.

[00:33:11] Typecraft: Hell yeah.

[00:33:12] Robbie Wagner: , Did you go before or is this your first time? I.

[00:33:14] Typecraft: It’s my first time, and so I’m excited because I want to, I wanna get out there more. I wanna do like more of the conference stuff. You know, I would’ve, I would’ve wanted to go to React Miami if, if we weren’t having Olivia right around that time. I, you didn’t go to React Miami did you?

[00:33:31] Robbie Wagner: Nope, I wasn’t allowed. Yeah.

[00:33:32] Typecraft: Yeah. yeah, and it was totally, you know, of course I’m not gonna go to Miami like a week before our baby was due, so, , didn’t do that. But, I want to get out there, I wanna do more conferences. we did a workshop at Rails World in Toronto.

[00:33:46] Robbie Wagner: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:47] Typecraft: year, which was so much fun, and so I just wanna do more conferences, so I’m excited to do Big Sky.

[00:33:54] Typecraft: I think that’ll be, that’ll be really cool.

[00:33:56] Robbie Wagner: yeah. I didn’t go before. I didn’t even know it existed. [00:34:00] Before, like Chuck was like, I’m going to this conference, and he didn’t even tell me like, Hey, do you want to go? He was just like, it, it was coming up and he was like, oh yeah, by the way, I like, next week I’m gonna be at this conference. I was like, why didn’t you ask me to go?

[00:34:11] Robbie Wagner: Cool. Um,

[00:34:13] Typecraft: You guys are still doing the podcast at the time?

[00:34:15] Robbie Wagner: yeah, so he was like, I, I mean it’s, it’s kind of the whole joke that it’s like HT Max Comp is basically like what it’s for. but so he went to that and like, you know, Prime’s gonna host and Aaron Francis and like, whatever, and I think Prime maybe hosted before too. I don’t know.

[00:34:30] Robbie Wagner: He was at least there. so like, you know, a lot of people we know and whatever, and I was like, yeah, you should have definitely invited me. But anyway. now on the website, you and I are the, the top two people on the, uh. The speakers list, which is, uh, a privilege, but I, I don’t understand why ‘cause I’m not very popular, but, uh

[00:34:51] Typecraft: You’re popular in my heart. Okay.

[00:34:52] Robbie Wagner: Oh, Thank you.

[00:34:53] Typecraft: Yeah. Popular in my heart.

[00:34:55] Robbie Wagner: So what is your, uh, talk to be about?

[00:34:57] Typecraft: so,

[00:34:58] Typecraft: it’s actually pretty cool. [00:35:00] This is a thing we’ve been working on with, um, type craft. We, we started doing what we’re calling Vim Challenges. We’re gonna come up with a better name, I think as we kind of think through like a little bit

[00:35:09] Typecraft: more

[00:35:09] Typecraft: of it, but, huh? Vim gm. I was thinking like Vim Dojo, you know, like some something are silly, but it’s, um, sup some super interesting we’ve been doing, which is Vim Challenges. , Just because I feel like if you wanna learn Vim, you want like more repetition. You wanna do like more of it, like, not Vim, but like anything, you know, if you’re trying to be in good shape, you gotta lift weights, you gotta go to the gym all the time, do wraps, all that stuff.

[00:35:31] Typecraft: So.

[00:35:32] Robbie Wagner: I want it gamified.

[00:35:33] Typecraft: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Similar thing to Vim, right? , Or anything that you wanna learn. So what the talks about is sort of how we came up with like Vim challenges and how we sort of made it. ‘cause it’s not just, I think it’s kinda interesting the solution we had, right? So we, so my business partner is Robert Bean, by the way. Do you know who that is?

[00:35:51] Robbie Wagner: It sounds familiar. I should.

[00:35:54] Typecraft: Robert’s my business partner. I call him the other half of Type Craft. And I think you’ve, you’ve at least crossed paths with him [00:36:00] before, you know, echo bind and like Chris Ball, Michael

[00:36:02] Robbie Wagner: Yes. Yeah, I do.

[00:36:03] Typecraft: Yeah.

[00:36:03] Typecraft: So Robert started Echo bind with them. Those, like those, those three

[00:36:08] Robbie Wagner: Maybe that’s where I know him from.

[00:36:09] Typecraft: yeah.

[00:36:10] Typecraft: So yeah, you probably know him from there.

[00:36:11] Typecraft: And yeah, we just, we’ve always kept in touch. My first rails job at Teladoc, Robert hired me and uh, we just kinda kept in touch since then. So we’ve known each other for like 15 years or so. And then, uh, yeah, I started making videos on YouTube, started to take off just a little bit and Robert was super excited about it.

[00:36:27] Typecraft: So yeah, he joined up with me. We’ve been doing type graft kind of together for a while now. , But yeah, we have type craft Do Dev is sort of like this like learning platform we’re kind of working on and we made what’s called Vim, we’re calling Vim Challenges, which I think are super interesting. We, it’s a Ruby on Rails app and what we do with Vim Challenges is like, we actually have a challenge.

[00:36:46] Typecraft: It’s kinda like Vim Golf, if you’ve seen that before. , Where we give you like a prompt and we give you the text in like a vim sort of instance, and we give you the expected text that we want you to give us to actually complete the challenge [00:37:00] and. What we do is we, there’s two things. Number one, we actually give you a real Vim instance in the browser.

[00:37:06] Typecraft: It’s not like emulated at all. It’s an actual Vim instance running on a server, running a pseudo terminal. So whenever you open the, the browser window, it actually starts up a pseudo terminal for you. Opens up Vim in like a secure mode and has the, like the text, the starting text, right? And that is run on, go through web sockets and the web sockets sort of stream information back to the Rails app.

[00:37:34] Typecraft: And the Rails app uses X term to display that information, which is, I think a really fun like technical solution and a fun like technical problem that we solved.

[00:37:42] Typecraft: And X term is a really cool thing because like, it’s the technology that’s in like VS. Code, right? Like that’s the terminal. When you open the terminal, it’s X term.

[00:37:50] Typecraft: So X term js on like a web browser is the same as basically X term. Vs code, which I thought was kind of cool. , But then on top of that, to actually score Vim [00:38:00] challenges, we make sure that the expected text and the prompt text kind of match each other, right? Because that’s, that’s the first way. If you did it right, then you did it right?

[00:38:07] Typecraft: Right. If you, if those don’t match and it was incorrect, if you get zero, but then on top of that, because it’s Vim, you only know so much about Vim, right? Like, I couldn’t know the most optimal way to do anything in Vim. I have my own sort of habits with it, but who am I to say this is the most optimal way to do it, right?

[00:38:27] Typecraft: There’s like all kinds of ways you can do anything in Vim. So what we actually do is we send your keystrokes, the output text, the amount of time it took you to do the challenge, , to ai, like to, to an open AI sort of thing. And then we actually have AI analyze it and spit back out like a score for you based on those like criteria.

[00:38:48] Typecraft: So. After all of that, you get a score back and yeah. That’s basically how it works and that, so, so talks can be kind of about that and, yeah, I think what we’re gonna do [00:39:00] is actually make like a challenge for the conference. So whoever has their laptop out at the time, we’ll just put out like a URL.

[00:39:07] Typecraft: Everyone can go there and then like, we’ll, we’ll like score it in real time. So it’ll be a cool demonstration. I think it’ll be a fun talk.

[00:39:13] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, that sounds cool. The only thing I know how to do is quit Vim, just ‘cause I didn’t want to get stuck in there. So.

[00:39:19] Typecraft: And even that, there’s like so many ways to even quit Vim, right? Like, so it’s like, I think it’s cool. It’ll be fun. It’ll be

[00:39:25] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Yeah. Sounds

[00:39:26] Typecraft: What’s your talk gonna be on?

[00:39:27] Robbie Wagner: so mine is a variation of, I gave a talk at a Web devcon, which is a Amazon internal conference. About like all the new stuff. Well, I mean, new is relative, but like, hey, have you been a developer for 10 years and you haven’t looked at all the new input types in HTML,

[00:39:45] Robbie Wagner: like you’re building your own color picker.

[00:39:47] Robbie Wagner: You don’t have to input type color, like, you know, stuff like that. , So I’m, I’m gonna build a very like, sarcastic talk, like, take that like serious subject

[00:39:56] Typecraft: Mm-hmm.

[00:39:56] Robbie Wagner: it not serious about like, the, the [00:40:00] title is like, HTML is stealing our jobs. so I’m gonna like, talk about all the things we used to, like, spend tons of time like, you know, putting tons of divs and tons of JavaScript into like hand roll that you don’t have to do anymore and just have like a, a fun sarcastic spin on like each one of those things.

[00:40:16] Typecraft: That sounds really funny. Yeah, I could, I could totally see how that’s, yeah, and I have gotta say, I’m not really much of a front end guy, so I didn’t know that there was a native color picker.

[00:40:27] Typecraft: HTML element.

[00:40:29] Robbie Wagner: That’s what spawned the idea for like doing this at Web devcon is I didn’t know either. I was working at Art 19. We had a, like, I don’t know, super complicated color picker js from like NPM and like we were using that, and I was like, all right, there’s a few bugs in this. This isn’t working how I want, can I just build one?

[00:40:48] Robbie Wagner: And I was like, Googling it, and it was like, input type color, bro. And I was like, oh shit. Like we don’t have to do anything.

[00:40:54] Robbie Wagner: Like, so like then I like went down that rabbit hole of like looking at different things that exist too. [00:41:00] And I was like, oh, there’s a lot you can do. Like, you don’t have to build accordions anymore.

[00:41:03] Robbie Wagner: You got like summary and details and like, you don’t have to build much of anything anymore, honestly. But

[00:41:08] Typecraft: fun. I love that. Hell yeah.

[00:41:10] Robbie Wagner: Yeah,

[00:41:10] Typecraft: That’ll be a fun talk.

[00:41:12] Robbie Wagner: yeah. I haven’t gotten to start, , writing it yet unfortunately, but, uh, I’m always a just in time, talk writer, so

[00:41:20] Typecraft: Hey, you work better under pressure for sure. I

[00:41:22] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:41:23] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Without a deadline, like who would ever get anything done?

[00:41:25] Typecraft: And you have, you have three damn kids now. Like, what else are you gonna do? You can’t, you can’t write,

[00:41:30] Robbie Wagner: Yeah,

[00:41:30] Typecraft: you gotta take care of kids.

[00:41:32] Robbie Wagner: yeah. I am gonna experiment with like, like I, I kind of know what I want each slide to like, say, and the vibe for like each thing. So I wanna try to like, use, uh, I haven’t even looked if it like how it works, but there’s a thing called Gamma that’s like AI slides.

[00:41:45] Typecraft: Interesting.

[00:41:46] Robbie Wagner: So I wanna like, try something like that, be like, Hey, I want like, you know, this many slides, this kind of content, you know, build me something.

[00:41:53] Robbie Wagner: And at least it’ll be a starting point to like, not have to build it all by

[00:41:55] Robbie Wagner: hand.

[00:41:56] Typecraft: Yeah. That’s pretty cool. I think. That’s interesting.

[00:41:58] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. We’ll see. [00:42:00] I’ll, I’ll report back if it works well or not.

[00:42:02] Typecraft: Yeah.

[00:42:02] Typecraft: Have you started using AI more and more for like, uh, programming related tasks? Are you still rolling everything by hand or what?

[00:42:09] Typecraft: I guess you’ve been on leave, you’ve kind of been out of the loop a little bit.

[00:42:12] Robbie Wagner: I have been using it more. It’s a little bit tricky with, . Like working at different companies, like Amazon’s, like you have to use our stuff like, like Amazon Q and like, , I don’t know, bedrock, I guess, or I don’t even know. Everything has a weird code name. And then like, uh, IBM has like Watson X or something like that.

[00:42:30] Robbie Wagner: I’m gonna have to learn how to do all of that. I was using cursor because everyone said like, cursor’s the best whatever. not at work. ‘cause I’m not allowed to use it at work, but I was just using on side stuff and I was like, this is actually pretty awful.

[00:42:43] Robbie Wagner: I don’t like cursor at all. I don’t know why everyone thinks it’s so good. And like, I tried Windsurf, I started using that like a week ago and it is so much

[00:42:53] Robbie Wagner: better. It is like, yeah, so it’s, they both actually do really terribly, not really terribly wind surf’s a little [00:43:00] better at like, hey, , I have like a next JS app.

[00:43:03] Robbie Wagner: Make it astro. It’s not gonna happen. Not gonna happen. , But Windsurf is actually really good at like their like tab to go through stuff. Interface feels more intuitive to me and like gets the suggestions right. More than Cursor does. So I don’t know why they’re all like similar, you know, models, you can switch between all the models, use whatever you want.

[00:43:25] Robbie Wagner: But like, , wind search so far seems to be better.

[00:43:28] Typecraft: you’re going the approach of like the IDE or like the editor that has a thing sort of integrated to it, right? Like Windsurf is an, is an editor, right?

[00:43:38] Typecraft: Yeah. So I mean, I tried that too. I’ve tried Cursor. I’ve not tried Windsurf. Oh yeah. Cursor 1.0 is out today, by the way.

[00:43:46] Typecraft: Was that today? I think it was

[00:43:47] Robbie Wagner: I don’t know. I saw, yeah.

[00:43:49] Typecraft: Like this. I mean this week, you know, it came out at least. but yeah, for me it’s like, I don’t know, I don’t really care. and I agree. So I also did, , I tried Cursor and I also tried, , in Neo Vim [00:44:00] there’s a really great plugin called Avanti. It’s A-V-A-N-T-E.

[00:44:07] Typecraft: I dunno if I’m saying it right or not. Avante is how I think of it, uh, about it.

[00:44:10] Robbie Wagner: Sounds right to me.

[00:44:11] Typecraft: Yeah.

[00:44:12] Typecraft: But that’s really good. And it does a good job of like emulating what a lot of these editors kind of have built in. Like it has that little side panel that comes out and you can like go up and down and like select the code that you want to, , put in wherever it is or whatever.

[00:44:24] Typecraft: I’ve had a lot better luck lately and I think I’ve come up with a pretty decent workflow. And really, I only use this like on side stuff as well. So maybe it’s not, uh, who knows if it’s like really great in a very complicated code base. But have you heard of, um, like Claude Code?

[00:44:38] Typecraft: So that one’s really interesting to me ‘cause it’s still in the terminal.

[00:44:40] Typecraft: I use it in the terminal. And you can give it context like, say I want to do a thing in this code base, but instead of having it actually just do the work. You can say, I wanna do this thing, write an RFC for how you would do this. Or like, write like a to-do list, right? And so like it can [00:45:00] keep track of its own context a little bit better and it’s a little bit more.

[00:45:03] Typecraft: And I think, I think the, the editors and IBS have this too, but it’s more, I don’t know even the right word is, is ent. Like where actually like kind of keeps looping through

[00:45:12] Typecraft: and kind of looking at things like do research, look like, do more research, like loop through some It doesn’t just do one thing and then stop like the way I think cursor and like Ivanti, I mean, depending on what you’re using works. But, had a lot more luck with like Claude code. I think that’s, I don’t know, I think it’s really interesting. But then again, of course. So many times it, like hallucinates or like just, you know, I’m like, oh, can you, can you make this like a, a brighter color?

[00:45:34] Typecraft: And it’s like, sure. I did that. And then also I, uh, updated the database to use all these different things. I’m like, I changed your whole entire framework. And it’s like, okay, no, just I want this one little thing.

[00:45:43] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. That’s the problem with like, it’s a give and a take, but like, yeah, the ENT style, , ‘cause Windsurf has like a, their own thing where it’s like you can still use like, um, clawed or, uh, I don’t know all the different shit, but you, they also have like a SWE. [00:46:00] Which is like, I guess software engineer or whatever, and it’s just like, it’s more agentic.

[00:46:03] Robbie Wagner: It’s like, oh cool, let me look at the files. Let me see this. Let me like, but it thinks really badly. Like I don’t act, it gets like outta control. It’s like fix these TypeScript errors. It’s like, cool. All right. Well instead of like looking and seeing that the library that has the types, you could just import it from that and like use that.

[00:46:22] Robbie Wagner: Instead, I’m gonna build all the types from scratch, throw it all in that file, like delete all these ones you’re importing. So why would we have those? And then like it just, and then it like has a syntax error somewhere and then like spirals and starts doing that in like every file. And like, thank God there’s a like reject all changes button at the end.

[00:46:41] Robbie Wagner: But like it is, it is more like trying to think, it’s just not good at thinking.

[00:46:46] Typecraft: Yeah, I know. And that’s, I mean, it’s funny, it’s, it’s, it’s hard to think, but like, we’re still so early on with like all of this AI stuff and at first you can be like, sort of push it off, be like, okay, it’s kind of dumb. It’s [00:47:00] like it does some stuff okay. But it’s not that big of a deal. But like the rate at which things get fast, like better.

[00:47:05] Typecraft: I mean, even if the models don’t get any better, it’s still like the tooling that people are creating. Around the models themselves, I think are only gonna get better. And like even the whole concept of like an agentic, , style, AI kind of agent that would kinda loop through and continually like, look at things and see if it works.

[00:47:23] Typecraft: And then if it didn’t work, try a different approach that’s gotten so much better already. Like I’m, it’s just a funny like, thing I, I, I’ve been really struggling with it myself, like kind of thinking like, what does the future look like for developers, right? Like, and I’ve only scratched the surface of all this stuff.

[00:47:40] Typecraft: I haven’t even like, looked that deeply into it. This is just my own personal, like, uses of this stuff. And I can’t help but think like, this is kind of, it’s kind of crazy, you know? It’s just, it’s a little bit nuts. And even if you take it at, I think the most sort of innocent sort of face value kind of thing, like ai, what it’s doing is [00:48:00] I think kind of obfuscating.

[00:48:04] Typecraft: Learning how to code for real, because you just need like a little bit of knowledge about something and AI can kind of solve that for you. And as long as tests pass or as long as like it looks good on the browser, like then you’re kind of good to go. , And so like for me, when I started learning how to program, I mean, I learned in college a little bit, but I really only learned through Ruby on Rails.

[00:48:25] Typecraft: And like, I think that kind of stunted my growth as a programmer because I only learned through the framework, right? I, didn’t learn Ruby, I learned Ruby on Rails. You know, I think a lot of people, probably the same with like a lot of JavaScript frameworks and things like that. Like people learn the React library, they don’t really learn JavaScript or ES6 right?

[00:48:42] Typecraft: , So I’m worried that like people are gonna learn how to code through ai, but not really how to code. Does that make sense?

[00:48:49] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I think that’ll happen. And I think,

[00:48:52] Typecraft: I’m not sure if that’s a good thing

[00:48:54] Robbie Wagner: No, but I think like this whole get rid of all software engineers, vibe, code, everything. [00:49:00] Movement is like far exaggerated. I think the thing that,

[00:49:04] Robbie Wagner: at least in my experience, like the thing that’s worked well is the, I want to change this one line.

[00:49:10] Robbie Wagner: You already know what I want to type before I type it.

[00:49:12] Robbie Wagner: I hit tab, like that works pretty

[00:49:15] Robbie Wagner: well. The whole like, just do a bunch of shit at once has not worked well for me on across any platform. , I’ve tried different models, you know, , open ai, , anthropic,

[00:49:25] Robbie Wagner: all the different stuff. If you tell it to do like a bunch of things, it just, it just won’t.

[00:49:30] Robbie Wagner: And then like there was, I don’t know if I told you this the last time we chatted, I, I forget which, uh, podcast I’ve said what on, but like, I was using Cursor at one point and I was telling it like, do this thing. And it’s like, cool. Edited the file. Dope. It’s, it’s good. It,

[00:49:43] Robbie Wagner: and I

[00:49:43] Robbie Wagner: was

[00:49:43] Typecraft: You’re absolutely right. This is completely incorrect.

[00:49:46] Robbie Wagner: And then I was like, I’m looking at the get history.

[00:49:49] Robbie Wagner: You didn’t make any changes. And it’s like, oh, you’re right. Cool. Lemme make the changes now. I you are right, you’re right. And then I was like, uh, you still didn’t make the changes. It’s like, are you just telling me you’re making the changes? And then it goes, [00:50:00] it legit says something to the effect of like, yeah, dog, I just keep telling you I’m making the changes, but I’m not going to make the changes.

[00:50:06] Robbie Wagner: I’m just gonna keep telling you I am, but I won’t do

[00:50:08] Robbie Wagner: it.

[00:50:08] Typecraft: You know what’s so funny to bring this thing back full circle here. The way your son is just repeating things back to you that you’re saying to him, it’s very similar to like, there’s so many times where I’m like, this is incorrect, that there’s a bug in this code. You’re absolutely right. There is a bug in this code, right where you said it was, lemme go fix it.

[00:50:24] Typecraft: Now. It’s like, okay, just do it.

[00:50:27] Robbie Wagner: yeah.

[00:50:28] Robbie Wagner: yeah. so so I

[00:50:30] Typecraft: path

[00:50:31] Robbie Wagner: I think it’s gonna be a long time before like vibe coding is actually real. I think it’s a fun experiment to be like, can I one shot an app with like a, the right prompt, but

[00:50:41] Robbie Wagner: like. If you’re a big, you know, tech company, just because it works, that’s not enough, you need to have engineers who know that it all works, how it works, how to fix it if it breaks, like good test coverage that isn’t all auto-generated I think, you know, there’s a long time before you just don’t [00:51:00] need engineers anymore. But at the same time, I do also worry about like, well, what if I’m not one of the good engineers that will be kept around, right?

[00:51:08] Typecraft: Yeah,

[00:51:08] Robbie Wagner: don’t know.

[00:51:09] Typecraft: yeah. And that’s, I mean, that’s, yeah, it’s an interesting thing.

[00:51:13] Typecraft: , The way I think about it too is like, so let’s say you extrapolate this out into the future, right? right now you can kind of vibe, I hate the, I hate the term vibe coding. You can vibe, code an app, but if it is a successful application, like let’s say you have a good idea, right?

[00:51:31] Typecraft: So there is a real good use case for. Ai, and I actually saw this at a meetup, uh, recently. I went to, uh, New York Ruby AI Meetup thing, right? And it was, there was this one guy who was like, yeah, I, I’m not even a Ruby developer. I’m not even a developer. I just, I thought Ruby looked like a good language to use.

[00:51:47] Typecraft: And so I used AI with Ruby to develop this application, and now it’s actually like very polished and I like it. , So I’m looking for like a technical co-founder now. You know, like that’s, [00:52:00] that’s sort of what this person was. And so I thought like, that’s a really interesting thing where AI now kind of lowers that barrier of someone who thinks they have a decent idea and actually just wants to execute on like, even like the pre MVP version of that idea, right?

[00:52:14] Typecraft: Like, I just wanna see something that kind of works, you know, like kinda like a, like, you know, Figma mockups where you can just click on things and it’ll go to like the right page, but like, obviously like an actual working app. And I think that’s a really interesting thing. But then at the end of the day.

[00:52:29] Typecraft: if you have like a whole generation of programmers who only really learned with ai, and they rely very heavily on ai, that’s not a good cohort of people who you would trust in like a big enterprise environment to know how to fix a thing, right?

[00:52:46] Typecraft: Like, this wasn’t built with ai. Like Steve over here is the guy who built it and he hard coded half the shit. And like, you’re gonna have to figure out how to do that. And if you, if you relied heavily on AI and you just don’t [00:53:00] know, like proper, like, Not even just algorithms, but like, just general like data, like object oriented programming or like what’s a fun, what’s functional programming?

[00:53:08] Typecraft: Like, what’s the difference between JavaScript and Ruby or dynamic and statically type languages and all that stuff. Like if you don’t have that core understanding, I don’t know, I, I don’t think that’s, I’m not sure if we’ll ever get there, but like, I feel like that’s what all these, like, CEOs of all the AI companies want is like, you don’t even have to know how to code anymore.

[00:53:27] Typecraft: Like it’s just,

[00:53:29] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I don’t think it’s gonna get there personally, like,

[00:53:32] Typecraft: don’t either, but like, I feel like the world’s gonna be kind of in this halfway spot. And, and not too much time already. Every, everyone I know all, I almost said every kid I know, all the kids I know these days. , No, my, my, my wife has a, a brother who’s 16 years younger than her, so he’s like just turning like 21.

[00:53:51] Typecraft: So he is in college now and he’s like, yeah, I use AI for all of my assign, everyone uses AI for everything. You know, like

[00:53:58] Robbie Wagner: Why wouldn’t you?

[00:53:59] Typecraft: But then like you [00:54:00] lose, you lose the concept of like hard work and like the enjoyment of like truly understanding something also you don’t truly understand anything.

[00:54:09] Typecraft: So,

[00:54:10] Robbie Wagner: I mean it’s not the same, but like I’m sure the people who like plowed feels with a mule said the same thing. Like, you don’t get the hard work with that tractor. Like, you know, like I think it’s just a tool and I think. The person using the tractor still needs to understand if the tractor is doing it right.

[00:54:28] Robbie Wagner: You, like, you can program a tractor now, just be like, GPS

[00:54:31] Robbie Wagner: do shit. But like, you need to know, oh, I just like mowed through a family of deer. Or like, you know, like there’s always things like

[00:54:39] Typecraft: Mow through a family of.

[00:54:42] Robbie Wagner: like, like you don’t want that.

[00:54:44] Robbie Wagner: So like, you know, I think the same with coding. Like I’ve had a lot of success, getting a few things here and there, and I, I think AI makes me faster, but it will not, like, if it’s like, oh, this thing’s broken and I didn’t have the knowledge of like, oh, I [00:55:00] know some JavaScript, I can fix it.

[00:55:02] Robbie Wagner: , Then I would just be stuck. I’d be like, please fix it. Please fix it. And he’d be like, I can’t, I can’t, I don’t think you’ll ever have completely non-technical people coding. Like I. You know, big tech, like fang phenomena,

[00:55:13] Typecraft: I don’t, I don’t mean non-technical, I just mean people who like learned programming through ai.

[00:55:20] Typecraft: Right? Like I learned

[00:55:21] Typecraft: programming. Yeah. I learned programming through, a framework, Ruby, on Rails. Right? Like a lot of people probably learned through programming through Next JS more recently or like React or whatever.

[00:55:31] Typecraft: I mean, like, what about the people who learn programming through ai? Right. At least with like Ruby on Rails. Like you still have to understand what Ruby is and like you’ll run into issues. , But I guess, yeah, I don’t know. Maybe that’s the same thing with ai. Maybe you’ll run into issues, you’ll solve ‘em and you’ll learn it, and I guess you’ll, you just have enough working knowledge to like understand like those systems.

[00:55:48] Typecraft: But

[00:55:49] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I

[00:55:50] Robbie Wagner: mean, I think it’s different. I think there’s people that are really good at prompting and then really good at debugging the slap it gives you, and it has like

[00:55:58] Robbie Wagner: nothing to do with being actually [00:56:00] good at coding.

[00:56:01] Robbie Wagner: It’s a different skill. It’s like, like interviewing is completely different than actually coding.

[00:56:06] Typecraft: That’s very true. Yeah. Very true. I guess Tom will tell, we’ll see, in my mind, I always think there’s gonna be this like, language that gets created that’s like perfectly suited, like just for ai, you know, like, it’s like, efficient, like what’s a better use case?

[00:56:19] Typecraft: What’s, what’s a better word for that? Efficient. . Tuned for ai, right? And like, it’s a language that no one’s gonna understand, but it’s like, it’s best with ai. So like, people can build things perfectly with this like, imaginary language I’m thinking of because AI knows all of its little permutations and what to do with it.

[00:56:35] Typecraft: I don’t know, I, I kind of, I think about this like for a while and like, thinking about it, I, I always worry about this world where like, not that software goes away, but like the kind of software that we know goes away, right? Like, nobody, nobody writes assembly code,

[00:56:52] Typecraft: do they? Right?

[00:56:53] Typecraft: No. Like, and then like, people when compilers first came out, it’s like, oh, compiler, huh? You [00:57:00] gotta check your errors or whatever. And it’s like you can’t manage your own memory, you know? And like, and now it’s gonna be like, I think with AI it’s gonna be like, I feel like there will be. A specific kind of tooling or programming language or something where it’s perfectly tuned for AI for a certain model, and that model knows that so well, that you can just prompt anything.

[00:57:21] Typecraft: It’ll be like, I know exactly how to do it. You’re absolutely right.

[00:57:25] Robbie Wagner: I think that could happen,

[00:57:26] Typecraft: when you get there, then it’s like, who are the technicians Then, because AI cannot do novel ideas. It just can’t, it just regurgitates what it knows, but who’s gonna like, come up with novel ideas when in the world where like AI kind of is like, it’s its own ecosystem, you know?

[00:57:46] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:57:46] Robbie Wagner: I think you’re gonna see a wave of like, like cybersecurity is gonna be even more important because I think you’re gonna be like, oh, I’m a bank, okay, I vibe coded the next bank software. And [00:58:00] someone’s like, oh, I can just use like the standard,

[00:58:02] Robbie Wagner: like root password, get in, take everyone’s money, or like, you know, something.

[00:58:07] Robbie Wagner: And then, then they’d be like, oopsies, we didn’t understand technology. So like everyone’s money is gone. I think there’s gonna be a lot of that, which is gonna then like slingshot us back to like, hello, we’re engineers, we understand things, I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong. Maybe it’ll just keep getting better and better and like, I do think we’ll be doing less, like looking at screens and more like, you know, open AI as their, like, physical device coming out or whatever.

[00:58:29] Robbie Wagner: That like, I think there’s gonna be a lot of, like, I just, you know, talk to my robot and tell it to like, go make me a sandwich or whatever, and I don’t, like, I don’t need to look at a screen. I don’t need to order DoorDash. Like,

[00:58:40] Typecraft: Yeah.

[00:58:40] Robbie Wagner: we’ll see with that. But like, I don’t know, I think it’ll be very sci-fi, like maybe in our lifetimes

[00:58:45] Robbie Wagner: we’ll

[00:58:46] Typecraft: Very black mirror esque,

[00:58:47] Typecraft: right?

[00:58:48] Robbie Wagner: Mm-hmm. Black Mirror is some dark

[00:58:51] Robbie Wagner: shit.

[00:58:51] Typecraft: I know. I love it. Did you watch the season?

[00:58:53] Robbie Wagner: I did.

[00:58:54] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:58:54] Typecraft: It’s really good.

[00:58:56] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.

[00:58:57] Typecraft: I gotta say that last episode though, the one of, [00:59:00] uh, that guy who like kind of cosplays is like the Star Trek guy.

[00:59:03] Robbie Wagner: mm-hmm.

[00:59:05] Typecraft: I didn’t, uh, we didn’t watch that one. That’s, that’s just like the least interesting episode.

[00:59:09] Robbie Wagner: Did you watch the previous season one about that?

[00:59:13] Typecraft: I did. Yeah.

[00:59:14] Robbie Wagner: Okay. Because if you hadn’t seen that, it wasn’t as interesting,

[00:59:17] Robbie Wagner: I

[00:59:18] Typecraft: Yeah. They kinda like escaped, right?

[00:59:19] Robbie Wagner: yeah.

[00:59:20] Typecraft: Yeah. But, and then like, that was a continuation of the episode. Yeah. I don’t know why I didn’t get into that one so much. The one I liked the most though was the, um, oh, I completely forget the name of it, but the, uh, the one where there was the subscription you had to keep upgrading or else you had to sleep more.

[00:59:36] Robbie Wagner: Oh yeah.

[00:59:36] Typecraft: was, she would say ads like in her

[00:59:38] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. That was creepy. That was like, I could see that happening

[00:59:43] Typecraft: It was the most realistic, I mean, not really real, like in real life, that would never actually happen. Like I think some government would step in and be like, oh, you can’t, you can’t do that. But, that was the most like, accurate portrayal of corporate greed and like that weird kind of insanity that happens when like [01:00:00] there’s a, like a company that controls so much and can just sort of say like, no, we made another plan and it’s even better now ‘cause you can get more sleep, but we really use your brain for like server power.

[01:00:11] Typecraft: This is just

[01:00:11] Typecraft: wild. It makes sense. It made so much sense to me. I was like, oh my God, that’s a freaking crazy world.

[01:00:16] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. All right, we are over time. , Before we end, anything you wanna plug?

[01:00:21] Typecraft: Typecraft.dev.

[01:00:24] Robbie Wagner: All right.

[01:00:24] Typecraft: Yeah, working on a nice, uh, working on a learn platform. Uh, we have vim challenges right now. , We have something really big coming through. , It’s coming up very soon actually. A landing page is about to drop for something big that we’re doing. Also, typecraftdev on, uh, Twitter, on YouTube, almost at 200,000 subscribers.

[01:00:44] Typecraft: Really pumped about that. Pretty wild. But yeah, that’s it. That’s all the stuff.

[01:00:48] Robbie Wagner: Cool. Thanks everyone for listening, and we’ll catch you next time.

[01:00:52] Outro: You’ve been watching Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Recorded in front of a live studio audience. What the fuck are you talking about, Chuck? [01:01:00] Enjoyed the show? Subscribe. You know, people don’t pay attention to these, right? Head to whiskey.fund for merchant to join our Discord server. I’m serious, it’s like 2% of people who actually click these links. And don’t forget to leave us a five star review and tell your friends about the show. All right, dude, I’m outta here. Still got it.